This is from a story that's going to run next week after I talked to Michael Franke:
What does that mean for the fans, as far a ticket prices?
``Last year I think we did a 38-game plan and we're doing a 40-game plan again this year,'' Franke said. ``Included in that will be the regular season, exhibition games and also will be the possibility of an expanded playoff format which we'll be discussing at our summer meetings. It depends whether you have more teams or just to change up what we're doing right now. Maybe we get into a situation where if you have seven or eight teams, maybe the first team gets a bye and maybe the next four teams play for the first round. We're talking about a lot of different things, but that will be determined in June.
``It also opens up for other things, too, that we may have interest in doing in talking to other leagues. Maybe one of these years we'll get an expanded playoff in that will include the winner of one league versus the winner of another league. You just never know.''
Ticket prices will be going up slightly for season-ticket holders and $1 across the board for all general admission tickets, Franke said.
``We were going to go up $2 and we thought that was too much,'' he said. ``We saw a double digit percentage increases in a lot of our expenses this year from insurance, worker's compensation and travel. Like everybody, you just have to figure out a way to cover your expenses. We're hoping to make up a lot of the difference in group sales and in the fans who buy tickets the day of the games.''
Comments
Me either.
I think I am really confused about some things...
What is the deal with this Season Ticket Holder party, or lack there-of? This is the first time I have heard anything about it NOT happening, for the current (09-10) season...
This is our first year to own season tickets, so I don't know when that normally happens. As I understand this was part of the package that we paid for wayyy back in October.
P.S. We haven't gotten anything in the mail regarding tickets for next season.
Generally the season ticket holder parties have been at movie theaters or like last season, was held at Crazy Pinz. Early March is when it happens, I want to say the 2nd or 3rd week. I know it was the 2nd week since I was on Spring Break.
This years season ticket holder party is April 14 from 6:00pm--8:00pm. My letter says, "Will take place in the Coliseum and will be a team practice for season ticket holders only with Coach Al Sims explaining all the drills. There will also be an "open skate" for all fans after the practice."
*It was the 2nd week last year since I was on Spring Break.
When did your letter come?
The letter either came Thursday or Friday. It was dated March 18. I'm down at school and I opened it up when I came back last weekend (since my Komets stuff gets mailed to my home address, not school address).
FWIW...Walleye season ticket prices have changed for the upcoming season. Seats on the glass are $908, including preseason games, 36 regular season games and 4 playoff games. Other seats are $548 for the same number of games. With the off-season change to AF2 indoor football, Toledo did not field a team (but may do so next year). As a first-season STH, I'm grandfathered in at $450/seat for the next two years, not including preseason or playoffs. $650 for glass seats at WMC seems like a bargain.
I happen to be a longtime fan of both the IHL and ECHL. We take in occasional games in Fort Wayne, Flint and Dayton, and enjoy our visits to each of those arenas.
Jabz....thanks for clearing that up. Komets seems like a bit better of a deal to me now, that's for sure.
We have all agreed in the past that the ECHL is a more expensive league to be in. I am curious as to why Kalamazoo prices are less than ours. They will be playing 72 games and they average 3400 fans a game this year. Here is their season ticket prices:
Red - $456
White - $395
Blue - $357
Why does an ECHL team have lower prices than an IHL team that averages 8,000+, double the K-Wings, the ECHL should have higher travel costs than this IHL too.
Why are we paying so much more? It can't just be rising expenses, because why wouldn't those costs affect a team in the ECHL the same way?
Could it be that we are playing less games, so naturally we are being charged more money to make up for those games lost. The Komets would naturally lose more money with less games than say Port Huron would, we have more fans overall.
I went argue that the IHL depends on the money that we fans pay for our tickets to help finance teams in other IHL cities that don't do as well. I think we all know this deep down, whether we admit it or not. It doesn't matter I guess to some.
Why is that we are told over and over that moving to the ECHL or the AHL would automatically mean a drastic rise in prices for us fans? Bob Chase preached it just the other night during the intermission. It shouldn't be the case.
I am not name-calling. I am not being negative. I am not trying to start a fight. I am just asking honest questions.
I will support this team no matter what. Unless it gets to the point where I just can't afford to. I ask the questions because I love this team and just want to know the information.
Try to put aside your pre-formed opinions about the Komets and the IHL and think about things objectively. I know lots of you have personal ties to the team whether it be ties to the team directly, or thru business, or thru players....whatever it might be, I understand that. Don't take my questions as an attack on the team or the owners or you.
I apologize if this makes anyone upset or uncomfortable. But as a consumer, I feel it is a fair and honest question.
Thanks.
I know why those leagues are more expensive, talk to some of the players that play in them and it is pretty easy to figure out. I'm not spelling it out on here, do your own research.
So how do you explain K-Zoo? There are many other teams I could go and dig up numbers on too, but lets just look at K-Zoo because we are all familiar with them.
How does it not cost them alot more? If those leagues cost so much more, why not in K-zoo?
And I know that you are saying Players Union. And if that is the case, why are we paying more here than most of the teams that have to deal with the players union?
I can tell you part of it, Hit. The coliseum gets I believe $2 off of every ticket before you ever see them. It's called a maintenance fee. Sure, the Komets don't pay rent, but the coliseum gets its money through a lot of other little ways such as charging for scoreboards use, food for the press box/off-ice officials, etc. Take $2 off every ticket and then see how the Komets compare. Kalamazoo controls every part of its building.
So how close would our prices be if we were in the ECHL, and didn't have the expenses we have now being in the IHL? Pretty close I would bet. 4,000 more fans a night or more should help. Right?
So the Komets would be better off owning a building that seated 3,500 rather than playing in a rent free, so-to-speak, arena that they get 8,000+.....?
I am trying to wrap my brain around that one.
Why are they lowering the amount if regular season games when they get more attendance on those and maybe adding more playoff games?
And what is the 40 game package? 35 regular season games and 2 preseason I would presume.....what are the 3 others? playoff games they say, but it isn't clear.
Burgee, we do research all the time and when we bring our facts to the blog they are dismissed as misinformed or if proven true they are deemed negative. So if you have some insight into the costs of other leagues please do tell so that we know you are basing your statements on fact and not faith......
Also, I'm not sure how confident I would be in a players comments about operating costs of other league's... Its been my experience that alot of players have axes to grind or left feeling slighted towards teams in other league's and its hard to tell fact from fiction....
It might be very comparable, Hit, when you consider they don't get any money from the box seats, parking or concessions when a team that owns their own building gets all of that.
OK, kids, hot off the presses here. I called about season ticket packages and asked about the confusion and was told that the papers we all received in the mail were printed out before all of the decisions had been made about shortening the season and what not. I was also told the playoff format for next year has not been decided yet.
"Yes, Frozen, we all know this already, get on with it."
The reason your white sheet and orange glossy sheet disagree is because of this timing problem between the meetings and printing. What is going to happen is that you will pay your money, then when the playoffs are figured out, any leftover money will go towards your playoff tickets bill that we usually get in January and will be deducted from that amount that you owe. You will pay the difference in January instead of a full bill for all of your playoff tickets like you currently do.
The woman on the phone was extremely nice. However, I got the impression she had been asked this question several times. If she is reading, thank you again for your help.
How many teams in other league's own the buildings they play in? Is it really that many???....
Purely a semi-educated guess? Somewhere between 35 and 45 percent. That's how Flint survived for years, and frankly is the biggest problem there now. PH and Muskegon and Kalamazoo. Cincinnati, Toledo, Chicago Wolves, Grand Rapids, I think Rockford. Milwaukee used to but not sure now. I can tell you this for sure, it greatly reduces the sale value of a team if they do not control the building.
It might be closer to 50 percent. I used to know all that stuff, but it's been a while. I would bet Hans would know better if you asked him.
Someone who should know told me once that a crowd of 3,500 in Kalamazoo was similar in revenue to a 7,000 crowd in Fort Wayne because of the maintenance fees, sky boxes, parking and concessions. I have no way to verify that but the person who told me had nothing to gain, either.
If I also had to guess, I'd be willing to bet that every team in all of hockey will see ticket increases next year. Somebody told me recently that an AHL budget was $3- to $3.5-million, which I think is actually low. Look at their attendance figures and average $10 per ticket, which again is probably low. You can easily see how some teams are losing between $500,000-to $1 million a year. You can't make up that much money with advertising.
I don't all the facts here, but with the K's situation don't they get the coliseum free of charge if the draw a certain amount in attendance? If that is the case wouldn't that be the ideal situation with not having the cost of maintenance and such if you owned your own building?
They would say no because of the amount of money they bring into the building. They would LOVE to pay rent to get a cut of the concessions and parking and such. They also have to pay to use the scoreboard and various other things whether they pay rent or not.
So first time poster here so be kind. When I lived in eastern PA we spent many nights down the road in Hershey watching the AHL Hesrshey Bears play. There are many comparisions between the Komets and Bears...mostly history and attendance. I have been to K's games since 03 and a season ticket holder for the past couple years. After hearing that the K's needed to raise prices, I though I would take a look at Hershey prices. I just asumed that Hershey, with its AHL play and history and presence in the area could charge at least 800-900 a season tix.
For Lower bowl (excluding row a) 40 games = $615
PLUS
Interesting and I bet they have to pay a pretty good price for the use of that new scoreboard...
I would guess Hershey must control the building looking at that list.
Yes the Bears and their arena is owned by the Hershey Ent and Resorts Company. They sold the naming rights to the arena to Giant food stores
Then it seems to me that the Frankes should re-work a deal with the MC that they pay rent, the MC drops the 2.00 surcharge, the Komets get 25-50% of the concession money, and the MC can keep the parking I guess. Also, they re-work the costs of box seats and use of the Scoreboard, or they find a sponsor or multiple that pay to use the scoreboard, which confuses me as to why they aren't all ready doing that. They need to find a way to level the playing field, the MC will still make a killing and the Komets could actually get into a real league and stop paying for 3-4 teams to be in this IHL. It seems that it would make better financial sense as well as bring a better product.
How does the NBAD league make it in the MC??? Higher league with no attendance. How is that working?
Great reporting, Frozen Water! Thanks for calling for the season ticket holders on here. I'm sure they appreciate it, even if no one thanked you for it. I will (even though I am not a STH)....thanks!
And Hit, one reason I thought of for the lower Kalamazoo prices was this....to draw fans in because their attendance stinks. Just a thought. Remember the $5 ticket nights at Muskegon this past season? Same deal. It's a marketing ploy. The Komets already sell season tickets at $600-whatever, so they don't need to drop their prices. They need to keep them higher to recoup their costs for the travel, work comp, Coliseum fees, etc. No matter if you believe that or not, that's what we're being told (and when was the last time movie tickets or baseball tickets went down?! Seriously...). But Kalamazoo needs to draw in as many fans as they can. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 5000 fans a $10 per tickets is a lot better than 1000 fans at $20 per ticket.
And I like your idea of the MC dropping the $2 surcharge, but really, Allen County decide to voluntarily give up revenue? LOL....I'd be shocked if that happened. Randy Brown would be fired. I think he even might fire himself if he let that happen.
If only it were that simple. These are among the smartest business people in town, and they've tried to get some of that, but it takes two to negotiate. If you were the coliseum -- which 20 years ago was losing money -- you'd never give up what you're getting (and as a taxpayer, I don't know that they should). The Komets have no other option unless they want to build their own building, and they'll never be that rich. So that's where things stand and there's really nothing anyone can do about it. The Komets will never have owners who are billionaires or even multi-millionaires who use the team as a writeoff or who can afford to lose significant amounts of money during a season. These owners already did that during the last days of the original IHL, and are understandably scared to death to take that chance again.
So I'm sure we'll discuss this into infinity, but that's where things really are. But you can also understand why the Komets want and feel they deserve every Saturday date they can get.