And then I'm back to vacation.
Anybody paying attention to the indoor football team?
Gee, just a few years ago they were drawing 7,500 fans per game and everybody thought it would go on forever. Is that five or six ownership groups who have been suckered in now? THAT'S why the Komets can't afford to take a chance on going to AAA hockey... because you can never expect that selling tickets will always remain the same in Fort Wayne!!!!! Same thing with CBA/NBDL/Division I/whatever. You can say they are different ownerships and different leagues, but that is exactly the point. Ownershps and leagues always change, but this is still the fickle Fort Wayne sports fans base.
Anybody notice the crowds for the Midwest League All-Star festivities? My boss said last week they'd draw 15,000 and everybody on Facebook was saying they'd sellout for the game, no problem. They had a combined 10,000 and 6,000 for the game because .... they didn't include it in the season-ticket package, they added $1 to the ticket prices and it was a Tuesday night.
And it's Fort Wayne -- where no one seems to know their sports history!
Also, not sure when everyone started to think Season Ticket Holders came to mean the same thing as Stock Holders. Hmmm. Another thing you are forgetting is that the commissioner works strictly for the owners not the other way around. Bowie Kuhn retired from the sports landscape a long time ago. Again, this is not a game, it is a business first, second and third. It's never going back, either.
Back to arguing amongst yourselves...
Just finished Nelson DeMille's The Lion (very good), started The Camal Club (not far enough in yet) and picked up Death Gate No. 1 today.
Bye bye.
Comments
Rob, you're correct of course about the number of teams, not sure what I was thinking there. Roster size can be close, or not, depending on what you consider a roster in MLB. With an average of 12 pitchers (rotation + bull pen) and the depth at other positions I come up with an average more like 33 or 34 per team. Then there's the 40 man roster, but to be honest I don't know that much about baseball so I don't fully understand that either. Average NHL team has what, 24-28 players?
I think it would be great if hockey got organized on the MLB example, I just don't think it will ever happen. Combining of the two/three AA leagues may happen someday, but that will be more out of their necessity then any thing to do with the NHL in my opinion.
Steve, Rob, the NHL used to have a farm system, somewhat like Baseball. For example the Leafs had Rochester (AHL) then Tulsa in the old Central League. Bruins had Hershey (AHL) then Omaha (CHL) Some of the Central, Western leagues had two clubs operating them. So half the team belonged to one organization etc.
In fact a few years ago Hamilton Bulldogs were jointly owned by Montreal and Edmonton. At one time all Quebec born players were the property of the Montreal Canadiens. That was before the current draft system.
When the NHL went to 12 teams there was a shake up but loose arrangements still existed at the AA level.
When further expansion to 18 then eventual 30 teams came this all went out the window. Simple reason costs. Most NHL team realize they have to look after their core prospects and have for the most part kept the AHL affiliations.
But without the lucrative TV contracts or cable rights (Yankees, Red Sox) the NHL couldn't afford to sponsor teams at the AA level.
Remember the NHL rinks only hold on average 18,000 people. The players contracts got out of hand. So they had to cut back on their farm team spending. I know baseball salaries have escalated as well , however, as I mentioned TV revenue offsets that somewhat.
Hit had a good comment awhile back about this that I agree with...basically stating that major juniors/college and the AHL are the feeder system for the NHL. It works, so why would the NHL dump a ton of money into an AAA, AA, A system like baseball's?
It'd be thinking ahead. Granted a ballpark is 15-20k bigger than a hockey rink, and throw in the TV deals like you were saying Mike, makes a difference, evidenced by the Big Ten making the most money out of all the conferences last year (point being they have their own network). I just think that it would be in everyone's best interest to gather their collective minds and make an attempt at organization. Because right now on the surface it looks the opposite.
I don't think all of the money, if at all any, would come directly from the NHL. In fact, I don't think there's an NHL "bank." I say that because I don't see them helping out the IHL or the CHL, let alone any other leagues. I believe they money comes from the owners of the teams.
JR, I tend to agree with you and Hit. Back before the entry draft started in 1963, the original six NHL teams owned players rights from a very early age. The original teams owned Junior teams in Canada. Chicago had St. Catherines, New York had Kitchener, Boston - Oshawa etc.
When the draft became more formal after expansion this arrangement didn't make sense. A lot more teams were picking from a pool that hadn't grown after the baby boomers went through.
What is in place and why Junior leagues do fairly well is what is called a transfer agreement (see Hockey Canada website).
Teams in Major Junior in Canada and USHL in the States receive a payment for drafted players. I am not sure if or how the NCAA teams are compensated. I think the first round amount is $115,000. It used to be that the minor hockey systems these players played for in their home towns received money also. I can't find out if that is still true.
The money is not kept by the Junior team it is put in a pool for the league. So everyone benefits from the development of these players.
I don't believe that Major Junior teams are making a ton of money but I think they do okay. And as you can see, if you have decent attendance and keep developing players you should have a fairly consistant operating situation.
Rob,
I know what you are saying. Again back in the day, NHL players were not normally playing right out of Junior. They spent time in the minors because there weren't that many spots.
Today, they (NHL) are investing a ton of money in young players and they are bringing them along much quicker then in the past.
That being said, they don't require the development spots further down the ladder then the AHL. And a lot of these drafted players will return to junior.
If the player doesn't make the NHL team right off the bat, he may be lucky enough to catch on with the AHL club. If not he is looking at the IHL, ECHL etc.
Where, to your point, owners like the Frankes are icing teams, using their own captial. Making the minor league system a big gamble at best.
Organizing the various leagues in attempt to minimize the gamble and stablize franchises could be the answer.
Let's hope that what the IHL and CHL are working out furthers that outcome.
Blueline: That's very nice for you to have blind faith in something. My point, however, was that many people will question things they are putting their money into. They want to know what they are buying. Many Komet fans have decided that since things have been alright on the ice for the past several years, they can assume they will continue to do so. For all I know, they may be correct. However, I am simply not one of those people who is willing to toss out money just because someone else says it's going to be fine and they will tell me more about what will be fine later.
My money practices are not like this just with Komets tickets. I like to know exactly what I'm buying and what I can expect to get for my money. If I'm buying a new ATV, I talk to people who have had a certain model, I test drive it, I read reviews, specs, all of those things before I buy it. I'm not someone who is going to change making rational economic decisions just because it's the Komets.
From reading the posts on here, many people seem to take it as a personal attack if the Komets or the Frankes are questioned for some reason. Some seem to feel the organization can do no wrong and will always make the right decisions. I do not understand this logic either, especially not after your "fearless leader" constantly talks about the instability and unpredictability of minor league hockey, yet many of you only believe that as it pertains to all other hockey teams and not the Komets. Blake has also mentioned that he wishes more of us would remember back to when the Komets were in their dark years so we would appreciate what we had and that those years could come back at any time.
The Komets are fun for me. I enjoy following them, cheering for them, hating the other teams. I have my jersey I wear to each game, I clapped my little Komets fan during the games, I've cheered on Hoss when he engulfs wings, I've bought countless overpriced concessions, paid my $4 a night to park, and have left heart-broken after some losses and complaining about lack of efforts after others. That being said, I don't paint my home bright orange, travel to local businesses to follow players, adjust my schedule to listen to Brandon Warner on the radio, or give blind faith and/or money to the belief that the Frankes can do no wrong. I simply want information about what is going on.
Alan: Take that. Long book, short point.
RunningKomet, when you're on, you're on.
Mike, take what you just said and apply it to the MLB. I would agree that the strength of the franchises is better with leagues that are organized well.
Great post, RunningKomet.
Good informative post Mike, thanks.
Running Komet, some very good points also and I think most of us would agree with you to a large extent when purchasing most things, at least things of any real expense. I can drive my wife nuts with the research I throw into items before I make a decision to purchase.
I think, however, that same logic, caution, and desire for information can't necessarily be applied to buying tickets, especially season tickets, to a sporting team. Not to the same degree or extent anyway.
For Komet fans they only have to weigh the product that's been put on the ice under the current owners, especially compared to the product put out by other owners in a comparable level. The Frankes have always given us a competitive team that has done better then most of their competition. That alone makes it easier to make a "good faith" decision and get the tickets, at least until they fail to do so.
The decision is much easier to make when buying season tickets to a team. We don't have to choose between the Fort Wayne Komets, the Fort Wayne River Kings, and the Fort Wayne Fortress. There is only one team and one league here making the process much simpler. I think it comes down to one factor for most of us, will the level of hockey based on the league they're in be entertaining enough for me to spend my money? Fussing over what league they could be in is pointless in the decision process because the fact is they are what they are and I can buy or not. Anything else, to me, is a waste of time (as far a making the decision).
What else is there to base the decision on? The performance of the team? That won't work because no one knows that ahead of time. Heck, we won't even know what the majority of the roster will be until the season has been played into, so that can have no bearing on weather or not to buy season tickets. It can be a factor if I don't buy season tickets because I can then factor that into the decision to buy individual tickets.
The whole process is basically one of blind faith, I don't see any other way of looking at it, after a few factors have been considered of course. Having faith to buy season tickets isn't the same as saying the Frankes can do no wrong. It's having faith that so far they have done a lot of things right. It works for me anyway. If I'm buying a new camera a ton of research will go into it but the brand is probably already determined because of my collection of lenses. There are a lot more things to be considered then will I like the level of play a league is going to give me. I guess what I'm saying in part is the process of deciding to get season tickets can be made much more complicated then what it needs to be. For me anyway.
One more thing, I can't believe you haven't painted your house orange! Come on! It serves a couple of purposes. Not only does it show your loyalty to the Komets to your neighbors, it sticks out very nicely on Google Earth and "satellite view" on any of the map sites. It's also good for giving directions to people so they can find your house. "Turn left and half way down the block you will see a bright orange house with a black fireball painted on it. That's it, your there." Hey, it works for the Outlaws MC clubhouse on W. Main Street......................
Yeah, another volume for everyone to read until we get some real info..
I've been to several MMA fights & you never know what you'll get. Sometimes the undercard is better than the main events :)
For me the reason to discontinue my season tickets was the viability of the league... I have faith that the K's will field a competitive team; but I havent had that same faith in the rest of the league. I was very bored most nights and just couldnt make myself commit to a full season up front. I am one who goes to watch the hockey and could care less for the other entertainment. Seeing the same teams night after night got stale for me... Now I still go to most of the games (work); but now I dont have to worry about finding someone to use my tickets or exchanging them some other time during the season.
If done correctly, a merger with the CHL could get me back onboard; but if this is just a 2 year life preserver, then back to the same old 4-5 teams everynight, then......
Life is like a MMA fight. You never know what you're gonna get.
... Nah. Doesn't have the same ring. :P
Steve: I completely understand where you are coming from and the points you make. I was just speaking from my point of view and I understand it differs from others. It's kind of like people out there who continue to buy Fords because they've always had a Ford in the past... Will your new Ford hold up for you and get you through the snowy winters? Probably. Are you missing out on any new developments in autos? You'll never know because you're willing to settle for the same "good enough" Ford that you've always had. At some point a product that refuses to change (regardless of what it is) is going to become stagnant and fall behind. I'm just trying not to get stuck with an old product for new product prices.
JR--This is just my opinion. Having said that up front here goes. I really do not think this is a two year experiment. It is the very beginning of the future of minor league hockey. I think in 3-5 years all of minor league hockey will be "reorganizing" I don't just mean "A" &"AA". These leagues must find ways to be more fan friendly and cost effective. Fans are just going to be demanding more for their entertainment dollars. The cost of travel being just one area they will be looking at. By merging together they can purchase many things at better prices. Insurance , Eqp., dealing with unions. Advertising can be secured as well as purchased with more and better (stronger) associations.
I think we can all agree that bigger is not always better with regards to minor league hockey, it just might be if done properly. If you sold a product wouldn't we all like to see our product (whatever it is) in front of 500,000 people as compared to say 50 or 100 thousand? I must admit I have zero first hand information just a real good feeling. I have been wrong before and I am sure I will be again. I just hope I am around to see it happen.
Dschebig: I hope you are correct! Unfortunately, all we have to go on is what little they have provided in the news and all we gotten so far is that this is not a merger. They arent getting 'married', just dating for a couple years to see how it works out... The IHL will retain its identity, its own officials, record books, etc... during this period; but operate under the CHL monikor. This type of stuff makes alot of fans uneasy.
We dont even really know what the heck to call it, even the media has no clue in this regard... I have read countless articles from around the IHL and CHL cities and its called something different in just about every article...lol Decide on a description already!!! LOL
If this is something more permanent, I'm back onboard... If this turns out to be a life preserver until the IHL can get back to that 6-8 team range, then I will be highly disappointed...
JR--I admit the lack of information is upsetting. I feel like the Flint fans did last year. "There will more information in a week"
The real difference is we know it is forethcoming we just don't know when. I have heard 18 teams and that sounded better all by it's self. The Franke's have never sold me a "Pig in a Poke" so I (we) will just have to wait. It is tough when you have the passion for the Komets we all do. Good things take time. I am willing for it to take that time and be right when it's done.
The great thing about the Franke family and the Komets is they will be here when all the bandwagon jumpers decide to return. Many other cities have to live in wonder every year whether or not their team will be there from season to season, what they will be called, who owns them.......
SNUFF--We have been there done that and not that long ago. When you get to my age everything was not that long ago!
And they'll cater to the "bandwagon jumpers"... after all, they've said several times... "The STH's help us break even, the casual fan is the one we want to get in the door.."
I kinda like how the K's are catering to me now that I am not a STH.... I go to almost just as many games, pay less and I'm more important to them now than when I was a STH... Blake has reminded us of that many times....
Makes you wonder what's being decided or what everyone's waiting on. What's Franke's angle? Doesn't the ECHL make more sense? Chicago, K-zoo, Toledo, Cincinnati.... (I love beating a dead horse - not in the literal sense.)
Whats the definition of bandwagon jumper anyway?
I have never seen a band jump on or off any kind of wagon...
:)
An article from the QC Times.... Enjoy! LOL
http://qctimes.com/sports/columnists/devrieze/article_e0332700-81a3-11df-989b-001cc4c002e0.html
Schebig is 106 years old and I bet he has seen bands jump on and off plenty of things. I love my chrysler K car, wouldn't give it up for the world.
Whatever the K's do will never be good enough for some of the people.
Someone be in charge of Blog Fouls while I'm on vacation, have a safe 4th everyone, my flag is always flying!
Aint goin nowhere, just workin on my tan, need lots of spf4, order me up a tanker. I've decided to boycott the blog on vacation!
Rob, there's talk about Puska on Pucks interent hockey show saying that there's a rumor or rumors of Rockford maybe dropping down to the ECHL in the near future, but not this coming season.
First Chicago, now Rockford, looks like cities are starting to avoid the IHL and going with the ECHL instead.
Ok here's the link.
http://www.puskaonpucks.com/
The 15 minute mark.
JR for the record that is a column (mostly opinion) and not an article (in theory mostly fact)
I have jumped in front of a few bands in my day..... or was it wagons....
Snuff, you can split hairs all you want; but even factual articles are laced with the journalists opinion... It just depends on whether you agree with the journalist stance or not on the subject matter as to where you would place it.
I would assume that the puppet master comment ruffled your feathers......... Like it or not, outside of Ft Wayne a good majority of fans, media, etc... are starting to view the Frankes this way......
You know what they say about people who ASSume....
And you are sadly mistaken if there is anything anyone in cyberspace can say to me or about me that would ruffle my feathers.