This is from a story that's going to run next week after I talked to Michael Franke:
What does that mean for the fans, as far a ticket prices?
``Last year I think we did a 38-game plan and we're doing a 40-game plan again this year,'' Franke said. ``Included in that will be the regular season, exhibition games and also will be the possibility of an expanded playoff format which we'll be discussing at our summer meetings. It depends whether you have more teams or just to change up what we're doing right now. Maybe we get into a situation where if you have seven or eight teams, maybe the first team gets a bye and maybe the next four teams play for the first round. We're talking about a lot of different things, but that will be determined in June.
``It also opens up for other things, too, that we may have interest in doing in talking to other leagues. Maybe one of these years we'll get an expanded playoff in that will include the winner of one league versus the winner of another league. You just never know.''
Ticket prices will be going up slightly for season-ticket holders and $1 across the board for all general admission tickets, Franke said.
``We were going to go up $2 and we thought that was too much,'' he said. ``We saw a double digit percentage increases in a lot of our expenses this year from insurance, worker's compensation and travel. Like everybody, you just have to figure out a way to cover your expenses. We're hoping to make up a lot of the difference in group sales and in the fans who buy tickets the day of the games.''
Comments
But they get 3400. They got 3400 the previous couple of years in the IHL. It is no surprise there about the attendance average. And the season ticket costs have stayed pretty much the same. I seriously doubt that Picard and Co. are giving away the tickets there because of a marketing ploy. It is a business for them just as it is here.
My opinion is this. I would venture to say that us drawing 8000+ in a building we don't own, and Kalamazoo drawing 3400 in a building they own would be pretty close in operating costs and overall revenue no matter what league we are in....meaning IHL vs. ECHL......
The reason I say that, because Kalamazoo isn't paying for 2+ teams to survive in the ECHL like the Komets are paying for in the IHL. And next season, it will only get worse. How do you think Evansville is going to make it in the IHL next year, if there is still an IHL??? They will play in an Arena that seats 900 or so tops. So if they sell-out their McMillan arena there in E-ville, how much money do you think the Komets will have to give them to stay afloat??? And who do you think might be helping the Komets pay for Evansville to survive in the IHL? STH and Sponsors and Gameday ticket purchasers.
Will Flint survive? and who will pay their way next season?
Who owns the Generals? Owns....Owns. LOL
I understand what you are saying Blake. Thanks for discussing it with me and others. If only this IHL would magically fix its problems, attract teams that weren't failing and could at least pull its own weight and put a competitive team with a good fanbase together. If we had stronger franchises, this would not be an issue with me or anybody else that is for sure. But how long can we go on with one team being successful and the rest of the league bleeding and having no fans supporting those teams.....at what point do these other teams call it quits?
How much longer can Flint go?
Port Huron? Rich owners or not....they have a dinky arena they can't fill.
Dayton? Jury is still out. They might improve, but that arena needs a ton of work.
E-ville.....no guarantees they are the franchise that goes into a new building there. And we are going to role the dice on that team in a 900 seat ice rink for 1-2 years without any guarantee?
Quad City, they might bolt this league all together. They have an out clause in their IHL agreement with the I-Wireless Arena if the league drops below 7 teams.
Chicago....if they join back up, we hear every year they will, and they haven't, and even if they do.....can they be successful in that market where there are all ready tons of sports entertainment options there that people are consumed with? Hoffman Estates? Can that work?
Bloomington's arena is not figured out yet. The city is trying to sell the thing because he hasn't made money since the doors were opened. Never has made money. And the attendance there has been sub-par for the PT.
Muskegon goes away next season....you know the reasons why that is a huge loss. Just as K-Zoo has left has hurt this league a ton.
So what else can this league do? Can this league survive next season if it is 5 or 6 teams, one team not being QC?
I don't know guys. I just don't know.
Thanks for letting me discuss this.....I know it isn't popular to talk about and it makes people mad at me. But still, it is honest concerns. I hope the Komets can land on their feet this summer in a league that is worthy enough for the Komets. Seriously. This team and town deserve the best we can get. Right?
I think Evansville's owner has more money than he knows what to do with (Great guy by the way). He is extremely wealthy. The deal with Evansville is who else are they going to play next year if the AAHL goes under? Do they sit out an entire year without hockey before the new building gets done? That's quite a gamble from a marketing standpoint. Maybe they can get 2,000 seats in their building. They'll lose some money, sure, but if you look at it as a building plan for the next year, they could come out ahead their first year in a new building.
Hit, none of this is going to change. You can make a change. I'm not trying to be rude here, and I understand your frustration, but it's not going to change no matter how much everyone complains, however many different angles we discuss, how often I ask the owners questions you guys give me or I come up with. It's the way it is. None of it is going to change. Your options are to pay for season tickets or not. No one is forcing you to.
I think the Ks will be in the IHL next year, but they might also be in the ECHL or wherever. No one knows at this point. I think they'd prefer to come back to the IHL because it makes the most business sense, but I don't think that is set in stone either because so much depends on other teams. I have said this many, many times, I don't think anyone in any league right now knows exactly what is going to happen in six months because they don't know what's going to happen in two months. NO. ONE. KNOWS. They have hopes, plans and whatever but no one knows. The only thing we do know is that the Komets will be playing. Unfortunately, that's all we know.
And if they choose to support other teams financially, there's nothing that is going to change their minds. At that point, it's their money, their business.
Like I said, I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but that really is what it comes down to. You either get them or you don't, you get to vote with your money. And no, there are no guarantees.
I wish the hockey business was more stable, but I also wish the newspaper business was more stable. Neither are at this point.
I totally understand what you are saying Hit, and I wish I saw a better answer for you and for all the fans. There isn't one out there right now. I truly believe, hand on a Bible, that all the leagues are peeing down their pants right now because they're all stuck and trying to figure it out -- and they have no clue!
You know the only other option out of all this mess: Cut back to four vets, cut the salary to $9,000-$10,000, maybe even cut the gamenight rosters to nine forwards and five defensemen. That would cut costs, create competition for jobs. That's what they used to do in the 1960s and 70s. That's one way you can help teams stay alive longer, too.
Does that help the product? Maybe, maybe not. All it would do is make sure there is a product. They used to play with 12 skaters including the goaltender. Seven forwards, four defensemen and a goaltender. Think those guys weren't tired after three-in-three nights?
We might be getting back to those days.
OK, the other thing with Quad City, where are they going to go? What league could they go to that makes more economic sense than the IHL? There is no league. They could go to the ECHL and spend all week between games riding on a bus back and fourth. They already failed in the AHL, do they go to the Central and bus to Tulsa, and Amarillo, or Colorado? Those trips would kill them financially. Those fans complain about the schedule now.... Their players would be complaining soon enough.
The biggest thing the IHL has going with these cities is that these buildings have ice and they desperately need someone to take those 40 days a year. Again, check out the AHL attendance figures and multiply by $10. We think these teams are struggling, those teams are gushing money. So what will they do? Pick off five or six of the ECHL's best cities. Nice.
I will support them. No worries. I think they do the best they can and the product in Fort Wayne is good. I don't necessarily blame them for what they are trying to do.
My problem, I guess, is this league was formed to go away from what Brosal and the UHL did all the time. Which was just expanding teams in for expansion sake and not making sure the little things were taken care of first. The marketing, the geographic footprint, the arenas, the fanbases, the economics of that team.
And what is happening is pretty much the same or worse.
It is frustrating. Nothing any of us can do other than pray that things get better or a better situation comes up.
Why not push for an International (Independent) Conference of the ECHL where we remain our own league that plays inter-league games against ECHL teams and then feeds our playoff teams into their playoffs?
This would be similar to the National and American leagues of Major League Baseball. Set-up that arrangement where our league remains independent of affiliations and of player unions, but still can compete in the ECHL with the same rules as the ECHL and such.
Is this possible.....hope so.
I kind of agree with you. That was the plan and then the economy went into the dumper and then it because let's all just hold on and try to survive. it's the same in every business right now.
Then you'd have union stuff and that adds more expenses. I don't know. Would Gwinnett coming in sell any more tickets? It sure would add to the expense. These might work but they need a lot of study on them first. because if they don't work, whole leagues could fall apart over a gamble like that.
It just seems to me that the whole Minor League Hockey system needs look at itself and figure away to put the markets that are doing well or just ok together and scrap the ones that aren't or never will. And maybe it is time that groups of owners of various leagues get together, with the people that run the leagues, and put something together that makes economic and geographical sense. It makes no sense right now how things are going in several places. Teams like Flint, Port Huron, Dayton, etc. should drop to rookie or "A" type hockey in the size arena they have and charge prices that people can actually afford. I'm saying $5 to $9 tickets tops. And teams like Toledo, Fort Wayne, K-Zoo, Cincy, etc. need to be in a league together that can put a top "AA" product on the ice that is financially sound.
The only way this happens, is if smart people get together and make it happen. The NHL won't do this. The owners with the good markets and money can make it happen.
What comes around goes around.
The IHL will be back, I'm all right if it cuts back to four teams, I'm all right if it expands to 12.
Their business model is far superior than the other leagues. I'd be really surprised if we moved and I wouldn't think it would be to the A or the E. But if it is, I'm ok with that.
What I don't want is my seat messed with, my parking spot taken, my foo foo stand gone or my feathery peanut m&m eating yardbird gone.
Anyway by the time Obama is done with us none of us will have jobs and be able to afford to go anyway.
confused, bewildered As I (yes me)entered Heaven's door, the folks in Heaven Who made it, thieves, the liars, the sinners, Savage, the kid from seventh grade that took my lunch money twice.my neighbor Who never said anything nice.Schebig, red headed hockey chicks, the negative nellies. I nudged Jesus, 'What's the deal? How'd all these sinners get up here? And why is everyone so quiet, give me a clue.
'Hush, child,' He said, 'they're all in shock.No one thought they'd be seeing you.
Aint that the truth!
They drop to 4 teams....and I am sure the attendance would drop to nearly nothing.
I disagree on that hit, the fan base is to diverse. The way the fans are brought in is to diverse. The Komets don't have all their eggs in one basket, they have them in several just like any good business would.
What do we have, season ticket holders, corporate sponsors (with multiple tickets) group sales and walk ups.
Are you saying half of all those different groups wouldn't show up? Each of those groups have different reasons for going.
Its America, capitalism at its finest, if you got the green you can have a team wherever you like, and if you had a lot of green I think even the NHL would welcome you with open arms even though they have too many teams as it is.
I've come out to play and no one is around to debate, fight with or agitate.
Ok Burgee. If you say so. We'll see I guess. I for one, hope this league doesn't drop to 4. If it does, wow.
This is an example from the thread a couple days ago of a few people holding down the blog. This IS NOT a bad thing. The rest of us aren't talking because Blake and Hit are putting out a ton of really good information and the rest of us are just reading and learning a lot from what is being said.
Blake and Hit are both bringing up some really good points. I guess the only thing that is throwing me is how smart we hear these guys running the hockey shows are all the time, yet these ideas (which seem to be common sense) are completely looked over and we are told "will never happen." Yes, I do understand that there are a lot of intangibles we do not know about, but these are pretty big-ticket items we are talking about here as far as money is concerned. Like you said, Blake, it is a pretty frustrating situation and from the history you and Hit have provided, it seems like it has been for quite a long time.
Burgee writes about how socialist our country is and his very next post is about how "it's capitalism."
Burgee is a true Tea Partier or is it Tea Bagger they call them? LOL
While in the south, usually Atlanta I do enjoy a good sweet tea. I think hit has watched step brothers.
Someone is putting words in my mouth.
I'm going to bed I have therapy in the morning.
Schebig dyes his hair grey.
Burgee, did you touch my drumset? Did you touch my drumset? You better not have touched my drumset.
AAAAAAAAAhahahahahaha!!!! Hit, a lesser blogger would have got in trouble for that one.
I was watching cops, listen to yourself, you sound crazy man
Frozen Water, I did not post later last night because I was in bed. Taking Blake's "have some fun" advice. Ha! See if I get in trouble for THAT post..... :)
And Hit, I have a question for you....you mentioned earlier that Kalamazoo does not support two or more teams in the ECHL. How do you know that? It's not exactly well-publicized that the Frankes are infusing cash into any other teams, and you really can take it as speculation, depending on where you get your information. They have sort of dodged answering the question of how much, where the money comes from, where it goes, etc. How do we know what other teams are doing (or not doing) the EXACT same thing in the ECHL and the AHL? Or the NHL, for that matter? I really wonder, and would like your take on that question.
Because, the way I see it, K-Zoo's ticket prices are lower than ours, their travel expense is much higher, they average not even half what we do....and the ECHL is supported by the higher leagues directly in players and money. That league might have teams struggling, but they have plenty more teams doing well that do well enough that they can lose one or two or three teams it not make as big of an impact as it would in this league, IHL. If the IHL loses 1 or 2 or 3 teams, well they will lose more teams than they might have left. So it is not speculation on my part to say that oour good fortunes in Fort Wayne, is keeping Flint alive, maybe even Bloomington as we know one of the Franke Bros. is financially supporting them, We were helping Dayton to start out I would venture to say, not sure about now, I don't know how much money that new group of owners has, but they are losing a ton. Port Huron's owners have money, but they must be operating on a loss there each year. Muskegon claims they are losing money this year and they average around 3000.
Add E-Ville to the mix, they will go into it knowing they are going to lose their back-ends bigtime with an arena that currently sits with 900-1000 tops for capacity, they might add seats somehow, but how many more could you add to a skating rink like the Mac?
The IHL might survive to play another year....but it all depends on the success of the Komets.
That is why it is more important to the IHL that the Komets win championships, than it would be for Flint or Port Huron to win them. We win them and we average over 8000 people.....If they win them, they might continue to average 2000 tops and our attendance might actually drop with a bit of losing here or there.
We are basically the Fort Wayne Globetrotters, and the rest of the league are the hired dopes to play the mighty Komets.
Hopefully someday that will change. But it is good for the league currently. As long as we continue to pay the pricetag we are presented with. That is the key.
Well, Flint's team name is the GENERALS. Who do the Globetrotters ALWAYS play against and beat? The Washington GENERALS. What's really mind-boggling is that the Globetrotters aren't even originally from Harlem, they are a Chicago team! And guess where one of the supposed phantom addition teams is coming from next year... CHICAGO!
Blueline: I know, I saw the video on the Internet. You really should think of closing your shades, your neighbor has way too nice of a camera to leave them open. And for the love of all that is good and holy, at least kick the dog out of the bed!
I disagree, we are the fort wayne Yankees
My God, you're right! Someone call Oliver Stone! ;)
LOL....
Hit, who is supporting these other teams, the Franke brother himself, or the Komets organization? Which pot is the money coming from? I guess I should have made that question more specific. And how do you know the answer to that question?
Good answer to the ECHL part....I had not thought about the fact that their teams are supported by another team. Duh to me....thanks for answering me.
Burgee--I have meant the "Master" remember. Coming up on two years ago now. When I was there you were no where to be found. Just Catholics, Lutherans, Jews, all kinds of Christian faiths I can not spell. I am not sure I belonged there because he sent me back. I think he told me to bring Foo Foo's the next time I make the trip. I sure hope the next time he summons me he has hockey, NASCAR, big fish & Southern Gospel Music. I will than no I died and got to heaven. Blake, can I get the News-Sentinel sent there?
He sent you back to keep an eye on me I'm pretty sure! I had my ticket on the bullet train to hell punched and ready to board then you wandered in!