If someone can bring me some facts to prove that moving to the AHL would dramatically increase the average attendance enough to cover the added costs please bring it.
I believe that attendance in this town is tapped out in this economy. Short of an NHL team I believe you are going to see 5500-7000 most nights no matter what level you play. I also believe even if I am wrong and you add 1000 more bringing the average to 6500-8000 that the added ticket revenue would not be enough to overcome costs. I believe it is dreamland to think that you are going to get 10,000 in the building every night and even if you did I am not sure it would cover the added costs.
Now as Blake and others have said, if they had building rights, parking rights and concession stand rights, maybe...just maybe they wouldn't lose money.
Mr. Snufflupugus
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 11:01am
And if someone can do any of the above without trying to take a jab at me in the process then maybe I'll engage the discussion.
JR1
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 11:17am
What facts have you offered to prove your side correct, Snuff???
I will do some research and come back with what I can dig up... I did a detailed post on where the Komets stood in comparison to AHL ticket prices awhile back (and highlighting STH packages) and the K's fell in right about the iddle of the pack. There are alot of things that are not being brought to the table as far as this discussion goes as far as how much the parent club picks up in salaries (players, coaches, support staff), equipment, medical expenses, etc..., etc... Affiliates pay a base fee each year for the affiliation; but I would like to know how much of the above mentioned they are on the hook for... The K's never had a FULL affiliation agreement when they were an AAA club, so they were on the hook for the vast majority of the roster, coaching, support staff, so IMO, using thier previous loss/gains as an AAA club has to be regarded differently than if they would have had a full agreement.
I know the AHL is extremely unlikely to happen here in Fort Wayne especially as long as the Frankes are owners; but to dismiss it with assumptions while asking the other side for facts isnt fair to the discussion.
InTheBlue
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 11:32am
I've seen enough AHL hockey to know that going to games isn't any more fun than going to see the Komets play, so for me the question is; "Why bother worrying about it?"
The part of the financial equation I've wondered about, and never seen addressed, is how many freebies are given for home games. There is a ton of complimentary scrip given to a variety of organizations, the N-S coupon gets you in cheap in the 600's, Friday night Marathon cards get two for the price of one, students/children get a reduced cost and report card/scouts nights bring in a lot of non-ticket-buying customers. And it adds up. Say there are an extra 4000 students who come free with report cards. Across 33 home games, that's an extra 125 on our average attendance. Add scout nights etc and I wouldn't be surprised if (averaged out over a season) 1000/game didn't pay for their ticket, or paid a very reduced price. Just guessing of course.
RunningKomet
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 11:56am
I don't have stats. I don't have the desire to waste 65 degrees and sun to dig up facts. I can't really say I care enough to waste 34 degrees and rain to look up minor league hockey facts.
I'm just taking a similar approach to what Blake said earlier. I would just like to see AAA hockey in the Fort. I'm not saying it's practical or that it'll ever happen, I'm just saying it would be cool if it did.
Blake Sebring
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 11:57am
So what if the NHL club pays for some of the expenses? NHL clubs no longer fully stock their farm clubs. It's still a $1 million fee per season to be a top farm club, and the farm club is still responsible for filling out the rest of the roster's free agent players. That's four or five times what the Komets' player expenses are now.
The ``freebies'' the Komets give out InTheBlue are to former players and their family members. Advertisers get tickets as part of their package, so essentially they are paying for them. During the late 1990s when the IHL kept track of freebies, the Komets gave out the lowest in the league.
Here's some info from the story:
``several International Hockey League teams are lying about their attendance figures, according to a league gate report including games through March 3. At that time, the average attendance was 7,399 per game, but the average for paid tickets was only 5,408.
What's funny about the figures is that if the complimentary tickets are removed, almost every team is averaging 3,000 to 8,000 fans per game. Add in the comp figures, and the range goes from 3,600-15,000.
According to the report, Detroit gives away 8,000 free tickets per game, Utah 3,540, Phoenix 3,300 and Los Angeles and Cleveland 3,000. Detroit leads the IHL attendance race at 15,053 fans per game, but only ranks third in tickets sold.
The Komets give out the fewest free tickets in the league, about 450 per game. The league average is 1,991.''
InTheBlue
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 12:06pm
Report card night and scout nights must come out of the Komet's pocket, don't they? Or does someone underwrite those costs?
I am curious about the Marathon cards. When a free ticket is obtained with a Marathon card, is that covered by some blanket fee Marathon paid at the start of the season, or does Marathon pay the Komets some amount of money for every one redeemed?
Blake Sebring
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 12:07pm
Underwritten.
ticket hoder
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 12:29pm
Beach bums in Fort Wayne will now be showing the Komets playoff games on the road, no one would step up in town to show games till Beach Bums said yes, Can also be under 21 to attend this viewing at no cost thru CHL TV from computer to Tv. I ask the questions why has this never happend before, it took some good people from the CHL refs suck group to get this done. This page group shares info about commets that some would never hear plus we even had a tailgate party. Tell all to Go to Beach Bums friday and saturday to watch Komets hockey
InTheBlue
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 12:40pm
Blake, I didn't realize that. Thanks.
RunningKomet
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 12:41pm
Good deal, ticket hoder. Thanks for the heads-up.
Mr. Snufflupugus
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 1:32pm
I'd like to see AAA hockey. Heck I'd like to see NHL hockey! Forget Winnipeg let's bring the Jets to the Fort!
JR1
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 1:34pm
As long as its not Southwest Jets...they have cracks in them....
JR1
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 1:34pm
Where is Beach Bums?
ggeiselman
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 1:47pm
Next to Texas Road House on Washington Center Rd.
JR1
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 1:48pm
Thanks!
JB
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 2:30pm
Beach Bums has agreed to show the K games; however, there are still some technical difficulties with the hook up and projector. Check our CHL Ref Staff Sucks on Facebook for the scoop. Help would be welcomed. It is a sorry state of affairs that no sports bar or sponsor would step up and transmit the game. People from this FB group have contacted nearly every bar in Fort Wayne and got turned down. Pitiful community support!
Mr. Snufflupugus
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 3:24pm
I am surprised they can't or won't get it hooked up at the area restaurant.
BlueLineBaby
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 4:34pm
Went to an AHL game in Hershey over spring break...$16.50 for an upper level seat at Hershey....they only have upper and lower, not the 3 tiers we have. No $6 seats there. And parking was $7, and a piece of pizza for my son was $8. The giveaway for the night was....drumroll please....a golf ball. Whoopee.
AHL game at Wilkes-Barre Scranton was WAY more expensive. $26 for a seat 4 row up from the glass. Did not have to pay to park, which was good, since the parking lot was mostly gravel and full of potholes you could lose a 10 year old in. Their giveaway WAS cool....a Matchbox car that had the team logo on it. Thanks to the Pocono racetrack for sponsoring that one.
The NHL game we went to in Pittsburgh was pretty nice....stayed in a hotel right next door so did not have to pay any extra to park, thank God. Lots cost $20-30. IF you could find a place close. They had no giveaway. We stayed anyway....we had actually come to watch the hockey game. Silly us :)
mightbite, you'd love a WBS Penguin named Kevin Villeux (not sure on the spelling)....he's scrappy, and if he ever decides to become available for our league, we should get him. He's about 6'5" and reminds me of Henley, but runs his mouth in Frnch from the bench non-stop. Great agitator!! And can fight fairly well, from what the fans say. I only saw him throw a few punches before he got a gme misconduct and thrown out.
Mr. Snufflupugus
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 7:02pm
Radio interview with AHL commish today on this subject
I for one can say that I will not pay $5 extra dollars to come and see and AHL team, especially one that is not a winner. I use to think that it was great to see players play in Fort Wayne (for the other team) one game then the NHL the next. But I don't feel that way any more. I think the big mistake was not making some sort of deal with the ECHL. That is great hockey. I've seen three games in Toledo and loved every one. If the Frankes could have worked out a deal to get them and Dayton in, imagine the road trips. K-zoo, Toledo, Dayton, Cincy. Whelling is not far out of range.
mightbite
Thu, 04/14/2011 - 7:19pm
BLB, it looks like he may be in Pittsburgh before Ft.Wayne. A very high draft pick./Mrs. Mightbite would be able to set it up in a couple of min.
JR1
Fri, 04/15/2011 - 5:00am
I would pay at least 5 dollars more for AHL hockey; but would be completely satisfied with a stable AA league (ie: CHL/ECHL merger with regionalized divisions)... After watching hockey this year in a NHL called developmental league that has a nice mix of veterans, I never want to go back to the clutch and grab IHL2 style of hockey... I dont want to see quotes from Komets players basically stating they could do 'just enough' to get a win and that the other teams mentality was 'lets just go in there, put our sticks on the ice, and see what happen...' when coming to Fort Wayne in the old IHL2.... This first season in the CHL has been frustrating as all heck; but I've had a blast as a fan watching this team figure out how to win in this league. From the top down, they've had to work hard to compete and the culture of 'just getting by' seems to be evaporating before our eyes... Love it...
BlueLineBaby
Sat, 04/16/2011 - 5:35pm
I'm just honestly happy as heck to have what we do. We have great players and some really great veterans who take the time to help out the younger guys on not only our own team, but the up and coming players in our community. Chaulk spent 2 hours-plus doing a checking clinic for pee wee kids the Tuesday night before they left for Rapid City, and DeAngelis came over to help him after he finished up his stint teaching little bitty kids. Both guys had already had their own couple hour practice with the Komets and were on the ice for over 2 more hours with these kids. I love how they are a part of the community and really truly give of themselves, Chaulk, DeAngelis, and DuPuis more than any of them. The ones who are not in a city very long (as in, on a contract or team where they can be called up/down/etc) don't always get that opportunity, and that is a shame. So many of these guys make the best coaches for the kids.
Comments
If someone can bring me some facts to prove that moving to the AHL would dramatically increase the average attendance enough to cover the added costs please bring it.
I believe that attendance in this town is tapped out in this economy. Short of an NHL team I believe you are going to see 5500-7000 most nights no matter what level you play. I also believe even if I am wrong and you add 1000 more bringing the average to 6500-8000 that the added ticket revenue would not be enough to overcome costs. I believe it is dreamland to think that you are going to get 10,000 in the building every night and even if you did I am not sure it would cover the added costs.
Now as Blake and others have said, if they had building rights, parking rights and concession stand rights, maybe...just maybe they wouldn't lose money.
And if someone can do any of the above without trying to take a jab at me in the process then maybe I'll engage the discussion.
What facts have you offered to prove your side correct, Snuff???
I will do some research and come back with what I can dig up... I did a detailed post on where the Komets stood in comparison to AHL ticket prices awhile back (and highlighting STH packages) and the K's fell in right about the iddle of the pack. There are alot of things that are not being brought to the table as far as this discussion goes as far as how much the parent club picks up in salaries (players, coaches, support staff), equipment, medical expenses, etc..., etc... Affiliates pay a base fee each year for the affiliation; but I would like to know how much of the above mentioned they are on the hook for... The K's never had a FULL affiliation agreement when they were an AAA club, so they were on the hook for the vast majority of the roster, coaching, support staff, so IMO, using thier previous loss/gains as an AAA club has to be regarded differently than if they would have had a full agreement.
I know the AHL is extremely unlikely to happen here in Fort Wayne especially as long as the Frankes are owners; but to dismiss it with assumptions while asking the other side for facts isnt fair to the discussion.
I've seen enough AHL hockey to know that going to games isn't any more fun than going to see the Komets play, so for me the question is; "Why bother worrying about it?"
The part of the financial equation I've wondered about, and never seen addressed, is how many freebies are given for home games. There is a ton of complimentary scrip given to a variety of organizations, the N-S coupon gets you in cheap in the 600's, Friday night Marathon cards get two for the price of one, students/children get a reduced cost and report card/scouts nights bring in a lot of non-ticket-buying customers. And it adds up. Say there are an extra 4000 students who come free with report cards. Across 33 home games, that's an extra 125 on our average attendance. Add scout nights etc and I wouldn't be surprised if (averaged out over a season) 1000/game didn't pay for their ticket, or paid a very reduced price. Just guessing of course.
I don't have stats. I don't have the desire to waste 65 degrees and sun to dig up facts. I can't really say I care enough to waste 34 degrees and rain to look up minor league hockey facts.
I'm just taking a similar approach to what Blake said earlier. I would just like to see AAA hockey in the Fort. I'm not saying it's practical or that it'll ever happen, I'm just saying it would be cool if it did.
So what if the NHL club pays for some of the expenses? NHL clubs no longer fully stock their farm clubs. It's still a $1 million fee per season to be a top farm club, and the farm club is still responsible for filling out the rest of the roster's free agent players. That's four or five times what the Komets' player expenses are now.
The ``freebies'' the Komets give out InTheBlue are to former players and their family members. Advertisers get tickets as part of their package, so essentially they are paying for them. During the late 1990s when the IHL kept track of freebies, the Komets gave out the lowest in the league.
Here's some info from the story:
``several International Hockey League teams are lying about their attendance figures, according to a league gate report including games through March 3. At that time, the average attendance was 7,399 per game, but the average for paid tickets was only 5,408.
What's funny about the figures is that if the complimentary tickets are removed, almost every team is averaging 3,000 to 8,000 fans per game. Add in the comp figures, and the range goes from 3,600-15,000.
According to the report, Detroit gives away 8,000 free tickets per game, Utah 3,540, Phoenix 3,300 and Los Angeles and Cleveland 3,000. Detroit leads the IHL attendance race at 15,053 fans per game, but only ranks third in tickets sold.
The Komets give out the fewest free tickets in the league, about 450 per game. The league average is 1,991.''
Report card night and scout nights must come out of the Komet's pocket, don't they? Or does someone underwrite those costs?
I am curious about the Marathon cards. When a free ticket is obtained with a Marathon card, is that covered by some blanket fee Marathon paid at the start of the season, or does Marathon pay the Komets some amount of money for every one redeemed?
Underwritten.
Beach bums in Fort Wayne will now be showing the Komets playoff games on the road, no one would step up in town to show games till Beach Bums said yes, Can also be under 21 to attend this viewing at no cost thru CHL TV from computer to Tv. I ask the questions why has this never happend before, it took some good people from the CHL refs suck group to get this done. This page group shares info about commets that some would never hear plus we even had a tailgate party. Tell all to Go to Beach Bums friday and saturday to watch Komets hockey
Blake, I didn't realize that. Thanks.
Good deal, ticket hoder. Thanks for the heads-up.
I'd like to see AAA hockey. Heck I'd like to see NHL hockey! Forget Winnipeg let's bring the Jets to the Fort!
As long as its not Southwest Jets...they have cracks in them....
Where is Beach Bums?
Next to Texas Road House on Washington Center Rd.
Thanks!
Beach Bums has agreed to show the K games; however, there are still some technical difficulties with the hook up and projector. Check our CHL Ref Staff Sucks on Facebook for the scoop. Help would be welcomed. It is a sorry state of affairs that no sports bar or sponsor would step up and transmit the game. People from this FB group have contacted nearly every bar in Fort Wayne and got turned down. Pitiful community support!
I am surprised they can't or won't get it hooked up at the area restaurant.
Went to an AHL game in Hershey over spring break...$16.50 for an upper level seat at Hershey....they only have upper and lower, not the 3 tiers we have. No $6 seats there. And parking was $7, and a piece of pizza for my son was $8. The giveaway for the night was....drumroll please....a golf ball. Whoopee.
AHL game at Wilkes-Barre Scranton was WAY more expensive. $26 for a seat 4 row up from the glass. Did not have to pay to park, which was good, since the parking lot was mostly gravel and full of potholes you could lose a 10 year old in. Their giveaway WAS cool....a Matchbox car that had the team logo on it. Thanks to the Pocono racetrack for sponsoring that one.
The NHL game we went to in Pittsburgh was pretty nice....stayed in a hotel right next door so did not have to pay any extra to park, thank God. Lots cost $20-30. IF you could find a place close. They had no giveaway. We stayed anyway....we had actually come to watch the hockey game. Silly us :)
mightbite, you'd love a WBS Penguin named Kevin Villeux (not sure on the spelling)....he's scrappy, and if he ever decides to become available for our league, we should get him. He's about 6'5" and reminds me of Henley, but runs his mouth in Frnch from the bench non-stop. Great agitator!! And can fight fairly well, from what the fans say. I only saw him throw a few punches before he got a gme misconduct and thrown out.
Radio interview with AHL commish today on this subject
http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20110414_182851_960
I for one can say that I will not pay $5 extra dollars to come and see and AHL team, especially one that is not a winner. I use to think that it was great to see players play in Fort Wayne (for the other team) one game then the NHL the next. But I don't feel that way any more. I think the big mistake was not making some sort of deal with the ECHL. That is great hockey. I've seen three games in Toledo and loved every one. If the Frankes could have worked out a deal to get them and Dayton in, imagine the road trips. K-zoo, Toledo, Dayton, Cincy. Whelling is not far out of range.
BLB, it looks like he may be in Pittsburgh before Ft.Wayne. A very high draft pick./Mrs. Mightbite would be able to set it up in a couple of min.
I would pay at least 5 dollars more for AHL hockey; but would be completely satisfied with a stable AA league (ie: CHL/ECHL merger with regionalized divisions)... After watching hockey this year in a NHL called developmental league that has a nice mix of veterans, I never want to go back to the clutch and grab IHL2 style of hockey... I dont want to see quotes from Komets players basically stating they could do 'just enough' to get a win and that the other teams mentality was 'lets just go in there, put our sticks on the ice, and see what happen...' when coming to Fort Wayne in the old IHL2.... This first season in the CHL has been frustrating as all heck; but I've had a blast as a fan watching this team figure out how to win in this league. From the top down, they've had to work hard to compete and the culture of 'just getting by' seems to be evaporating before our eyes... Love it...
I'm just honestly happy as heck to have what we do. We have great players and some really great veterans who take the time to help out the younger guys on not only our own team, but the up and coming players in our community. Chaulk spent 2 hours-plus doing a checking clinic for pee wee kids the Tuesday night before they left for Rapid City, and DeAngelis came over to help him after he finished up his stint teaching little bitty kids. Both guys had already had their own couple hour practice with the Komets and were on the ice for over 2 more hours with these kids. I love how they are a part of the community and really truly give of themselves, Chaulk, DeAngelis, and DuPuis more than any of them. The ones who are not in a city very long (as in, on a contract or team where they can be called up/down/etc) don't always get that opportunity, and that is a shame. So many of these guys make the best coaches for the kids.