My only concern with all of this is why are we sure it's better in another league? That is not meant as a criticism but a legitimate question. The number of teams should not be the only factor, either, because the UHL proved that just means you can lose them.
I'm not convinced it is better in another league, and I haven't had that question answered to my satisfaction yet. Over 20 years, I've seen a lot of crap come and mostly go. There were just as many BS artists in the old IHL as there were with the new. It's the same in every league. It's always been amazing to me how people who made their money in another business can become so stupid in this one.
I have yet to hear a solid plan plan for minor league hockey. That's one reason why the new IHL at the time was interesting -- it seemed to have a plan. Then the economy bombed.
I think this is a minor league hockey business problem, not necessarily just an IHL problem. The IHL is not stable right now, and I'm tired of that, too, but I'm not convinced any of the other leagues won't be facing the same problems next year (or aren't right now). Look at the attendance figures and multiply by $10, and you can easily see the numbers don't add up to the costs.
So if the Komets are going to move, it has to be to a league that has a solid plan on how to attack these problems. Just saying these problems are going to go away is laughable. Just moving to another league isn't good enough without a plan. Then you might as well stay in the IHL and try to tough it out because at least here you can control costs a little.
It's become obvious to me the minors are not going to restructure along geographical lines which just proves my point because that is their best chance at stability and survival. If they aren't going to do that, why would things necessarily be better in another league for the Komets or other IHL teams?
I don't think junior hockey is going to work in these markets just because the costs are lower, and it's not a given that moving to another league is an answer, either, just to, well, move to another league. How will either of those be different to the average Joe fan? Just going juniors or moving leagues doesn't necessarily answer that question. It might buy them more time to come up with a plan, but that's not guaranteed, either.
The fans who take the time to blog consistently are not the major concern, because you will more than likely show up no matter what league they are playing in. That's not a knock on anyone's intelligence, loyalty or whatever, just an observation based on the Komets having the same 3,000-4,000 core fan base for 58 years. It has not increased or decreased a ton during all that time. That's the same fan base that shows up on Monday nights for playoff games. That's your core audience. There's another 2,500-3,500 fans on top of that that show up based on a number of factors, including the team's record, the individual players, promotions, etc. That is what fluctuates, and truthfully that is where they make their money.
The major question is how does moving leagues help or hurt that secondary core audience? That's the milti-million dollar question, and right now, no one really knows the answer. Everyone has theories, but it's not their money they are gambling with so theories are easy. Despite the last six years, it is not an absolute given the Komets will make money no matter where they play. If that were true, Ken Ullyot and Colin Lister and Ernie Berg, and Harold Van Orman and Ray Perry and Bob Britt and David Welker and their families would all be a lot more well off than they are now. If that were true, the Frankes would not have lost millions in the late 1990s. This is a risky, riskey business that doesn't give many second chances.
The only constant in Fort Wayne is you better win and win big or you'll get punished for it at the box office. It's always been that way in every sport that ever played here, all the way back to before the Pistons. There's a reason why the Komets and the TinCaps are the only minor league teams to last more than 10 years in Fort Wayne, and I believe the TinCaps are on their third ownership group. Thank goodness for Mike Nutter.
I don't know what's going to happen. I don't think all the IHL owners have any idea right now what's going to happen because it seems to change week-to-week depending on which reporter they have talked to most recently. I've said this before: They're going to wait until the last possible second and then pick whichever option looks best to them at that moment because right now, none of them do. There are no perfect, absolute right answers in any of this.
Comments
Steve, the B2 link out of Flint is a lil grainy; but if I remember right there are no obstructuions to the view and they are placed closer to the ice. I've never had an issue with a choppy feed or anything like that. Funny thing is, with all the updates and how great our Coliseum is, its been the worst feed by far than any other I've watched in the IHL this year...
Alan-Yes, Frank is my Uncle. He is truely someone I can go to and have an honest conversation with and never be judged. And Yes, We are the banner folks...lol! I enjoy reading all of your posted and when Frank told me he was a friend of yours, I've paid closer attention and watched for them. You say great things and never lose sight of the bigger picture.
Thanks JR, I'll probably watch it then. I've also heard that about ours.
"TIME HAS COME"
I was just trying to figure out how the AHL was right around the corner? There is not an available franchise to move to Fort Wayne. If an NHL team wanted an AHL team wouldn't you think they would have done it by now? Where was the people at to move them to the AHL when the Frankes tried selling the team to keep them from going to the UHL 10 years ago? There wasn't anyone then and there is nobody now. If there was interest it would be done. The Frankes would be moved out like the owners in rockford and Quad City were. The county would have to give up some of the concession and parking money and I don't see them doing that anytime soon. AHL hockey would be cool but it is no where near right around the corner.
Alan I really enjoyed the book!!! Very good points. As usual the posts here about the Komets the IHL etc. etc. seems that the people get all excited and try to get their points across and thats fine. All I ever say about this turmoil is it will work out and I am not going to have a brain hemorage worrying about it. Reasons other teams in the IHL do not do good??? Pee poor promotions lack of coverage bad marketing and that is NOT the fault of the Frankes. If they want to make it then put something into it or lose it....plain and simple. Of course the economy sucks right now and that does not help....but you must invest effort into your product or you are wasting your time and money.
Alan - Your kind words are appreciated very much. Your right about those constraints but that is life in the big city! Since I don't drink Foo Foo's really I would more than love to set down with a cold brew and shoot the hockey (stuff) [family blog]. My guess it would go on for hours. Yes sir You, Mike, Steve and me could solve all the problems in minor league right then. Of course it would be easy since it wouldn't be our money. We might have a big problem with the owners but Oh well! Kind of like the US Congress-"They listen just don't hear to well."
It has been a whirl wind week guys and dolls. Just got back from Men's night golf league and thought about our favourite topic. So here I am. Chaulker, calmed down a bit and I am thinking he's a hell of a fan, started me thinking. We are all worried and wondering what the future will hold. I know the score of the game but to some of us that is secondary to what will happen for next year.
It comes from caring for the game, the team, and your city.
All I can say is the game, the team and the city is very lucky to have folks with the passion all of you bring to this forum day in and day out.
Hell, you are all starting to sound like Canadians. LOL.
I M
Eh?
"Actually, Primis, I think the AHL is the least stable of all of them. They didn
I missed an "A". I meant an "AAA" affiliate in my first paragraph above.
And the beat goes on and on and on and on and on!
No problem. Yeah, they fear going bankrupt. The NHL do not field full AHL teams any more. They sign about 10-12 kids and then you are responsible for signing the rest as free agents, R.E. Syro and Curadeau the last two years. You are responsible for what those guys get paid, which just increases your costs. AHL affiliations also cost about $1 million annually to be the farm team of an NHL club. Been there, done that. I've even heard talk recently about two NHL teams going in to share AHL teams because of costs. It's just like the old days.
"No problem. Yeah, they fear going bankrupt. The NHL do not field full AHL teams any more. They sign about 10-12 kids and then you are responsible for signing the rest as free agents, R.E. Syro and Curadeau the last two years. You are responsible for what those guys get paid, which just increases your costs."
Blake.... this has been the way the AHL is for decades. No NHL team ever supplies a full roster of players for their AAA affiliate. Where've you been?
The talk of sharing an AAA club came about because of the mess in Des Moines, and Anaheim not having an affiliate and using ECHL Bakersfield as their primary. With Anaheim signing on with Syracuse, and Des Moines selling to Austin, and Edmonton going in to Oklahoma City there now once again can be a full 30 teams, not just 29 like this past season with one locked away unusable.
Costs had nothing to do with it.
That's not where I was hearing it. I was hearing there was talking of doing away with teams because they could not find suitable owners, so NHL teams would share one to cut costs. Even they are looking to save money in this economy. Only problem for them is, they don't have an Old IHL around to bid on players they want to farm out, ALA, Detroit, Chicago and some of the old independent teams.
Primis its a endless issue, most here are brainwashed and dont know the difference between AA and AAA hockey anyway. blake will sit here and plead the case of why we shouldnt have American league hockey here and yet his buddy that sits across the room from him at the JG would love to see AHL hockey here.
Shorty--I think "everyone" would enjoy the AHL, Blake included. It is all of the extra costs that will drive people away. Somebody has to pay those costs. I love Fort Wayne and have lived here a very long time. The truth is Fort Wayne is a very (Can I use this word?) CHEAP city. Just look at all the crying over the new ball park. That is still going on. It is very easy to spend other peoples money. Just look at the US Congress. This issue will go on and on and on and on and on and on. We can just and our tidbits.
Would I rather cover AAA hockey over AA? Definitely, but this isn't about me and never has been. It doesn't matter what level I cover, I'm still going to give the same effort. What matters the most is, keeping hockey in Fort Wayne for the longterm. The best way to do that, right now under these circumstnaces, is AA. It may not always be that way.
Cheap is a fair word. One of the worst things about Fort Wayne is that we are very cost-conscious, and that's also one of the best things because it keeps the cost of things down. Business owners know we won't pay for it.
Prime example: Look at how long people have been complaining about paying for parking at the coliseum, and compare the cost of that to other cities.
I agree fort wayne is a cheap city myself included, but i checked 6 teams and the ticket prices in the AHL were the same with the exception of what i call sucker seats at ice level that are expensive, oh well lets not even go there anymore with this debate,im sure we will be talking about this in the summer again. lets just win the cup and take it from there.