I've talked to several players over the past couple of weeks who have questions about the IHL's plan to change some of the rules, especially the instigator rule. That comes from players who fight and players who don't.
Each one I talked to has reservations about how this is going to work and wonder if they might be better off playing somewhere else. They'd like to hear more from the league on the specifics of what they mean by calling things looser in the offensive zone. I think they'd like to see a little more detail to what exactly the owners are talking about and want. It's fine to talk about these rules changes in the abstract, but what will they actually mean within the framework of a game? That's only fair because so far it's all been talked about only in generalities.
As one said to me, if they have a chance to go to another league that doesn't promote the fighting as much, and the pay is about equal, why should they take the risk and put up with more fighting by coming to the IHL? This player is not a wuss or a chicken or a wimp. He fights ocassionally, but not every night. He fights when he sees legitimate reasons for it.
Players also look at this as, my body is my tool, it's how I make my livelihood, so why should I risk it if I do not have to?
I think this comes back to a point I've made many times over the years: I'm not sure junior hockey is producing many of those types of players any more. I'm not sure players are being taught as much hitting and physical play at the lower levels. If they were, every team would have more of them -- because they are always looking for them in part to appease the fans -- and they don't. As one player told me, ``If the guys don't want to fight, it won't matter what they do with the rules, and not that many guys do any more. And the ones who do sure won't want to do it every night.''
Even the Komets oldtimers I talked to last week mostly chuckled at the intent of the new rules because they don't believe today's players will go with it. Hockey, they said, has changed and so have the players. Sure, there are plenty of goons, but how many of them can actually play, and do you want to just promote the spectacle of fights? Do you want to see a guy skate one shift a period just to fight? How do you promote the fisticuffs without damaging the overall product of the play?
No one wants to play in what might be perceived as a goon league, and I think the players would like a little assurance from the owners that is not what's going to happen and what the owners will do to make sure it does not happen.
Those are all legitimate questions the players are wondering about. After all, the instigator rule was not put in place to protect the fighters, but to protect those players who do not fight from getting obliterated by those that do. It had a legitimate purpose.
We'll just have to wait and see what the answers are. It's going to be fascinating to see how this works, or maybe if it works.
Everybody have a great and safe Fourth.
Comments
If the players don't want to play in a tougher league then leave and play somewhere else... I think everyone is tired of the European style hockey we have all witnessed the past few years. I would bet money the player saying something to Blake about fighting was, cough, Hansen, cough.... I think Hansen is a very good player at this level and he can drop the gloves when necessary, but he was very outspoken about the Elmira incident last year and that goon hockey is not something he wants any part of. I don't want to see goon hockey either, but as a fan of hockey I am tired of watching cheapshots all over the ice go unanswered by either team just so they can get their 12th power play of the game!!!! That is not hockey!!! I think players have to realize at some point that if fans stop coming to games, $$$ stop going in their pockets. Not really hard to understand.... The NHL is now beginning to feel it as well as Detroit couldn't even fill their building playoff games!!!! They weren't the only team that ahd that issue either....
That's exactly what some of the players are saying KF. They would rather play in a league that doesn't stress fighting then in one that does. Then if that's the case, where does the IHL get the players from? WHO would be willing to play in a fight club league?
Hansen got jumped last year in Elmira and nobody tried to help him. I can assure you that if Brent Henley would have been in a K's jersey during that game, that the beating Hansen took wouldn't have happened. Those types of incidents should not happen. I don't believe the new rules are going to make it anymore likely to happen. The Elmira incident just shows that it happened under the old rules. I don't see line brawls becoming the new "norm" in the IHL. A few more fights between guys that want to drop the gloves isn't going to hurt anything.
Guys could always go if they wanted to. The hitch is if one didn't then the other got two mins for starting, now the one who wants to can just throw down without the worry. If the other doesn't then what's to keep the guy who started throwing punches from stopping? This "Specialty player"? He might IF he happens to be on the ice. What you'd have in that situation is a line brawl or a bench clear because teammates would want to protect their own. And most see that as "goon hockey"
Well, Komet Fan, then put your money where your mouth is and how much would you like to bet?
And it wasn't just one player, either.
Pretty much tells me it wasn't Hansen and I didn't it was. I have a good Idea though.
Had to of been Kiayga, right?
He's forgotten more fights then any of you have been in.
Sadly Arthur does not fit into the Al Sims system. The Komets put all that work into him last year and now another team will reap the benefits.
Yeah, but I bet it won't be in the IHL, not under the conditions the owners want.
Kevin Weekes signed with the Devils which means he will play five games next season.
Not from what I've heard. One of the Big problems the Devils lost the playoffs is that Broduer played too much during the season (sounds familiar doesn't it ;-)) and they needed a better quality back up than Scott Clemmensen so they got Weeks. Look for him to play around 20 games.
Greg,
Nobody wants SLAP SHOT MOVIE Hockey. I think a majority of the fan base wants what the old IHL had. Did you ever watch any games in the old IHL? You complain before we have seen the product. If it is goon hockey come December then I will complain right with you. The instigator pentalty did nothing to stop fights. If a guy drops the gloves and you don't, he will get the 5 plus maybe extra 2 for roughing. You can't assume that without the instigator rule it will be a free for all.
I wouldn't be surprised if Richardson is one of the guys that is considering the move becuase of the new rule. Bruce will go if he has to, but he has a knack for getting far enough under people's skin that he could get jumped. Could you imagine Mario playing under these rules? He's be unstoppable. Beating Jesse Bennifield down from behind.
The NHL is looking at doing some of the same things the IHL is going to do such as allow for more physical play in the corners and in front of the net. IT'S WHAT THE FANS WANT, like it or not, Greg.
Why do you use a quote like
Why not Skate? Whats wrong with Goneau?
lovelost,
Once upon a time Daniel Goneau scored 5 goals in his first five NHL games. Fast forward to the player you saw most of last season. It made me think of most of the players on the ice the last year or two of the old IHL. How often did you watch him play and get the idea he actually cared? You know I do not rip players very often but when I see all of his potential wasted by a lack of heart it frustrates me to no end.
My point Skate is that Mr. Pickard stood up in front of a podium, said they are expanding the playing roster to 19 players in which they hope they extra player would be "...a Specailty player with a physical presence..." (aka goon/enforcer) while at the same time saying "...we won't condom goonery...", sorry, but I can't seperate the two. They go together so what we have left is goon hockey.
People maybe right and the players may decide themselves that they don't want this style of play and play they way they want to play. But most of of the people here are saying they want the hitting and the fighting and I'm afraid to tell you that a VERY SMALL PART OF THE GAME.
Skate, if you tell me to find the team the Goneau plays for i suggest you find the team the Jeff Worlton plays for and go watch them. That's what that extra roster space will be used for. Players like him. I hope the Komets are given him a first class ticket to Fort Wayne.
I want physical, exciting, fun hockey. If the players we had in the past don't like that.....go play in the CHL or where-ever else you can hide and not have to check anyone or stand-up for your teammates. Most of them wouldn't do it in a Komet's Sweater, so go play in the RGHL errr....CHL.
The IHL is just doing what is going to attract fans back to the game. Isn't this what we have all been pushing for the past 5 seasons. We have had playoff....championship teams that we have all yawned at. Most of you hated the Card Board Cutout era of Komet Hockey. Why did you hate it? It was boring. Why was it boring? Guys standing in one spot, no hustling, no hitting, no fights, nothing that would get you excited except for 2-3 goals a game. 60 minutes of hockey and you basically cheered 5 or 6 times when we scored a goal and when ICY cracked his boys on the rail or something silly like that.
Hockey needs to distinguish itself from everything else and make itself unique again. Boring hockey does not sell. That is a fact. The NHL is failing miserably right now. They have loads of talented players. Does anyone notice that anymore? Does anyone care? Minor league hockey cannot promote itself on talent alone. It needs rivalries, characters, and excitement. Knowing the names of the players on the other teams because they are the villains, the enemies, the jerks!!!....that is what is needed. Fans get excited to see a K-Zoo team coming to town because we hate them and want to see them get stomped on the first faceoff.
A show of hands here........
1)How many of you get excited when a big hit is made into the boards?
2)How many of you go crazy when a brawl breaks out and you scream your head off during it?
Not all of you out there cover your eyes and ears and hum "Jesus Loves Me...."
We need excitement.....the IHL is trying to deliver that. Get on board!
Ummm uh oh. Hit, I think you might want to retract part of that statement. Jesus is not a part of my faith so maybe I am wrong on this but I am not sure the use of his name in the context you spoke it is going to make too many people happy.
Greg why does that extra spot bug you so much? How is one extra player going to cause the whole league to be goon hockey especially he that player like worlton gets 2 shifts??? When the komets joined the league they had the extra 19th player and it wans't a goon league then why would it be now? How that extra player is used is based on the coach. If GP was here he would use it on a defensive forward or extra defenseman. If Martinson had the extra he may use a extra goon or skilled forward depending on the team they were playing. I have said it before but there isn't going to be 19 goons on the ice.
I made a point the other day about how guys like Gretzkey and Lemeuix were pretected. Well when the UHL was known as a goon league you still had goal scorers like Robin Bouchard, Kevin Kerr, Jim Duhart, Paul Pollio, etc etc etc stay in the league but you know there was the Andy Beazeaus of the world down there that would try to kill you if there was any thought of touching the stars.....just ask that guy from San Antonio. The skilled players need to relize they are going to be protected.
Remember when Quad City had those 50 win seasons and were getting 8-9000 people everynight was because they had a good mixture of Scorers and Brawlers just like ummm hmmmm Rockford this year. You think guys like Mizzi, Corbeil, Ralph, Bennefield, etc etc would have gotten awy with have the crap they did if it wasn't for Big Snake, Johnson, Lizon, and Watson????
People say that Tidball was pretty dirty for what he did with Hansen (he was) but you know where were the 17 other players to help him? The only player that had the balls to jump in was goodwin and that was after the beating was pretty much over. With the new league that just wont happen. Beleive me he never did that against Rockford (Gee I wonder why).
Greg if the Komets win 6-0 and there just happens to be a line brawl because of some stupid guy are you going to be mad because of the fight? I didn't see any mad people when Rockford, Quad City, and Muskegon had their brawls this year. Just watch the videos on Utube and look at all the people cheering and getting excited. By the way the scorers still scored and didn't get hurt because of the fighting.
If the league wouldn't had the instigator penalty this year we might of all had a diffrent opinion of Mario. Anybody relize his aggresive play dipped after he had to many instigator penalties? He was worried to get suspended and other then the offense part his play went down. Players won't take a cheap shot as much because someone can come over and fight them instantly without extra penalties like Mario did early in the season when he accumulated most of the penelties.
Here is a goon league.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3TbZAua6JJ4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vctQVwOn6rQ (Note Where's Ron Hextall when you need him)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=J750DlO94i4 (Listen to what they say)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6KNCYeWHUVk (so much for scorers night fighting)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xbApyaRObV0
Look for a Former Komet Coach...who is it?
Excellent post Charlie, I agree 100% !
Blake I do understand what you were saying, I just sort of went off on a tangent lol. I just really beleive in what the IHL is trying to do. I can honestly say its been a LONG long time before I could say that about any of the people who run hockey leagues.
I think the players really need to realize that this country club atmosphere at games is killing the sport. I firmly beleive that the Frankes really drove this idea of going back to old time hockey. Anyone that can remember the Al Sims era will tell you it was the most exciting time for the Komets.
Sims teams won going to the finals twice in 3 years and a finished 1 point off in the Huber Trophy chase the other year and yes they could beat the hell out of any team too with their fists.
Every game back then was an event. The Coliseum was a madhouse. Then somebody got the bright idea that hockey needed all these ridiculous rule changes and the building on many nights turned into a morgue. I wish I could find a link to an article I just read that talked about how hockey was white hot in the early to mid 90's then the pollitically correct movement came in and killed the sport.
I can't tell you how many people I know either don't go to games or cut way back because the excitement is not there anymore. The bottom line is what most of hockey is doing is simply not working. The ratings prove it and the attendance does too.
If Al Sims can do what he did his first go around here I guarentee the fans they lost will come back.
There is a reason the Morency's, Henley's, Chaulk's, and Richardson's of the hockey world are so popular with fans....their passion and intensity.
Most popular Komet player ever = Steve Fletcher enough said. Kevin Kaminski play 1 season here, not even a full season, but to talk to many fans they act as though he played 10 years here with all the stories about him.
One more example, once Henley came to town last year many teams were tame. I vividly remember the Rockford game last year when then game before their tough guys jumped Richardson and Marchant. The funny thing is when Henley was in the lineup the next time around big bad Watson wanted NOTHING to do with Henley, with no instigator he can't run now and the fans will be happy.
Make this work IHL and Frankes!!!
OK, first and last time, that's the last I want to ever read any more on here about Tidball and Hansen. No one jumped in because it was well behind the original fracus and everyone was focused ahead on the glass. It was not a deal where his teammates left him out to dry and would not have jumped in. NO ONE SAW IT, not the players, refs, coaches or whatever because they were focusing on breaking up the bigger brawl in front of them. If they had seen it, I'm sure they would have helped out. Remember, all the players talked last year about how tight that team was, and I saw it with my own eyes.
I think that was the reason why the players were so upset by the entire incident afterwards. They felt like Hansen had been let down, but there was nothing they could do about it afterward and by the time they realized what was going on it was too late. And then they had to be reminded of it for several weeks while Kevin healed.
Quit trying to twist it and turn it into something it wasn't. You guys make it sound like everyone else just backed away and let him take the beating which is not true.
And Hit, Jesus was a warrior. If you ever saw The Passion of the Christ you would certainly agree. He just chose not to respond.
I think that the Komets should host a tough man (or woman) contest and the winner gets that extra roster spot. They could make it a reality show. We can call it " So you want to be the greatest Komet fan favourite ever"
Let the players be the judges. Then they could yell witty comments and swear at some of their favourite fans. (Yes, I spelled that wrong intentionally. I did it the Canadian way like Tony. LOL)
LOL Blake it is about time you started spelling things correctly! :-)
i dont like to disagree with you blake but i saw the brawl in elmira and many komets saw the beating going on and turned their heads. i remember yelling at my moniter for someone to help. and as a former player, when those things happen you always look around and find you partner or your linemate to make sure they are ok, so i dont and wont take any excuses for the lack of team unity in that game. km, you make a good point too about the sims era. we had an independent team {oops! sorry rich guy to spoil your use of independent} a team filled with guys who no one else wanted and they were hungry to prove themselves. they skated they scored they checked they fought they stood up for one another they won and above all , they put excitement in the barn and in the city. thats when we became the jungle cause no other team wanted to come in here
and play. jusst like the old days. now we still call the place the jungle and we still play the song, but the rest of the legacy is a joke. so let s bring back the old style and see what heppens, the komets were never known for having goons, only guys willing to go 100% and be team players. would anyone call fletch a goon? how about cal or terry? was hillworth a goon? salvucci? baldwin? quit complaining and lets give it a try and see how it plays out. better than the alternative, no hockey at all , people. MAN
Come on people. The addition for one player to dress and the subtraction of the instigator rule is not going to cause this league to run amuck in anarchy. The initial battle cry for "tough, physical hockey" isn't bad for the game either. It's still part of the game. I must admit though that motto will be tough to fulfill. The hockey era's of constant body checking and fighting is long gone and the sooner people understand that the better. It's gone. Could it come back? Perhaps. Old style cars are slowly making a return and fashion statements from 20 years ago are also popular. But its not the same. It never will be the same and like cars and fashion....not everyone buys into it.
The IHL is irrelvant right now. Its a business that needs built up to respectability. What have we had for 5 years? Teams joining and folding like crazy. No stability. Laughable. In its current state, unless teams have close ties and/or agreements with higher levels of professional hockey....you will not draw younger, hungry players to this league. You can't sell this league on any basis really outside of offering more money and lighter travel. You think you will get more effort out of someone looking for dollars or someone looking to get noticed? The motto this league is trying to live up to is pretty damn hard to accomplish when the game isn't played like that anymore. I think the extra skater portion of the deal (which I assume most will fill with an enforcer of some sort) but the balance of the rosters will be more of the same thing we have seen for years. That is the era of hockey we have in front of us today. There are so many leagues, so many players, all in the same age period. Simply taking player A from this league and moving him to that league doesn't make him tougher, hungrier, or a fighting machine. Older players (which I think this league will have quite a few of) will not be changing how they have played for years and years. You can say "well they can go to Europe" or "they can play in the CHL" if they can't take play how the new IHL wants them to. Guess what...that is exactly what they will do.
I have no idea what to expect next season. Neither does Bob. Neither does Blake. I am excited but also cautious as alot of what has been said has been said for a long time. Fool me once...shame on me. UHL or IHL...changing your name doesn't change who you are. My only wish out of this whole situation is we rebuild the league, not to what it WAS, but for what it can be. I hope the IHL succeeds to spur changes to make minor league hockey regionalized. More teams, better crop of players. The players staying within your league that you can really identify with and each having ties to higher levels in order to attract youger players. Not play here a season or two and vanish. All this will not happen today or tomorrow. So there is no sense beating dead horses day after day either. Sit back and lets see what happens. None of us are part of the decision making process anyway. For your own sake please step away from your monitors for just a few hours and breathe some fresh air. You might miss a complaint or another assumption (which you can always catch up on and respond to) but you will be better for it.