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Tailing the Komets

Mac's message to Hit Somebody

``My dad reads that and then calls me. You write on there that it's a separated shoulder and not a broken collarbone. All right?''

Gulp!

Actually, Mac looked really good at practice today, too. He'll be 100 percent for the playoffs.

Posted in: Komets

Comments

JungleMonkey
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 8:31pm

How much are the franchise fees in the IHL? (This should be interesting....)

Hit Somebody!!!
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 8:35pm

The wild thing is, more talk is happening in the past 24 hours than ever before it seems. Reporters are aksing questions, GM's and owners are talking. Sources in the hockey world are talking. Things are in motion. It is happening right now folks. Believe it.

One source that is tied to the Chicago owner bigtime, is saying that the Sears Centre is in the works with the ECHL. He said this on February 28th, and most laughed at him, thinking no way man. He today is repeating this and saying he stands by his story.

The NAHL team that Flint is getting or might be getting is Alpena. The Alpena NP is reporting it too. And Savage reported that the NAHL is discussing a team in Flint at their board of governors meeting this week.

I just saying, there are alot of people talking right now.....and even the Frankes are saying that they are keeping a close eye on things going on and aren't just saying it is the IHL. They are looking around too....or maybe they know where they are going all ready.

Here is my guess:

ECHL, and we take Bloomy, QC, maybe PH, and Dayton with us. Chicago goes into the ECHL as well. And the ECHL forms a perfect midwestern division that makes tons of sense.

Toledo, Dayton, Cincy, K-Zoo, PH, FW, Chicago, BLoomy, QC, and they need one more to make an even number or one less I guess.

Hit Somebody!!!
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 8:38pm

IHL franchise fees are paid by Fort Wayne Season Ticket holders, I think.....LOL.....HA HA HA.....LMAO......Joking......Kidding......hardy har har.

JR
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 8:48pm

I dont see Dayton going along in that group since the ECHL did nothing to prevent them from leaving after last season...

I could see Evansville coming into that equation for 2011... Would make for a very good midwest division, alot more road trip possibilities and some good old fashioned stability... Downside, we'd have to get used to penalty parade hockey again and that darned ol instigator penalty would be back.

JR
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 8:51pm

If the remaining IHL teams do merge with the ECHL, part of the deal has to be that Toledo goes back to the Goaldiggers name..... Thats a must...lol

Burgee
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 8:52pm

here is your key: (#2 in minor league hockey attendance)

now you just need to understand why, if you did the old 80/20 i would venture to say that hockey/on ice product fans are more towards the 20 then the 80. and it sounds like the hockey/on ice product fans are pushing the AHL envelope on here. so what does that do to the 80?

where does the extra $400,000 - $650,000 in net net profit come from to cover these costs? especially in this recession which is closer to a depression.

i don't have the answers but thats a lot of extra money to spend with no asssurance of a payback.

just hockey doesn't drive those attendance numbers, if that were the case go to the pre Franke years did they fill the place to 80% of capacity all year?

i don't know what the answer is but there sure is a lot of supporting data out there that the AHL isn't the answer, maybe it is, maybe we'll get morency back if we are in the AHL and see him play in what maybe 15 of the games..........The NHL doesn't give a rats tail about the AHL, they care about getting their 5th, 6th 7th liners some ice time in case they need them to come ride the bench when injuries happen.

Dispute that O.H.I.C. Komet Warrior!

Happy Easter Schebig, don't pull the bunnies ears.

JR
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 9:03pm

I understand what you are saying Burgee; but there is also those out there that tell you that larger corporations are more likely to sponsor teams that are affiliated with the NHL. I think you could see more corporate blocks of seats bought during the regular season, suite sells, etc...

Most AHL teams are owned by the NHL parent club or wealthy businessmen who use it for a tax write off. Is the AHL the answer? I dont know; but anything is better than a 6-7 team league where only a couple teams are making it financially...

Hit Somebody!!!
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 9:18pm

Salary cap for the IHL is what??? 13,000 a week.

How many weeks in the IHL season? I think more than 25, but I will say 25.

$325,000 in salary for players alone....lets presume the Komets are taking care of their own players and Flint's also......that is 650,000 right there. And there are more costs in a team than just player salary. Housing, insurance, doctor's bills, travel, etc. etc. etc.

I contend, if you cut the cost of running multiple teams in one league....like we are allegedly doing......then there is the money we need to be in the ECHL at least.....and it should be without any raise in ticket prices to us loyal fans.

Burgee
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 9:25pm

This is what minor league hockey has been forever: a 6-7 team league where only a couple teams are making it financially

Burgee
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 9:33pm

Hit, I think you are comparing flint logo pucks to saginaw spirit pucks.

JR
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 9:41pm

I'm just thinking out loud too...

I think the concept behind the IHL is solid; but it was implemented at the wrong time. The economy has turned some very good AA minor league towns into ghost towns and the experiment is failing, IMO. Not enough strong cities left that arent already in league's to keep the IHL afloat. You lose 2 of your cornerstone franchises and the foundation starts to crumble.

I personally think that the ECHL would be the way to go. It would seem to make the most economic sense and already has some strong midwest markets to add to the surviving IHL teams. That would make a good "bus" league for most of the season with a few long road trips. Nothing worse really than what the K's did early on in the UHL when they had to travel to places like Elmira, Adirondak, Ashville, Knoxville, Danbury, etc...

Burgee
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 9:44pm

I gotta go to bed, shrink appt tomorrow, she's gonna love my komet warrior stories and the dream I had about Schebig in a flowered summer dress keeping score during a flint game while Savage brings him ice tea. Superfan was taking pictures from the press box and posting them on the OHIC web site. Wendy was interviewing hit wearing one of mightbites Duhart jerseys why Junglemonkey was in the background letting us all know we were #1.

Frozen Water
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 9:47pm

Firstly, this is nowhere near being a depression. Times are bad and they have been for awhile, but we aren't close to depression numbers.

Blake: You are correct, sometimes when some are talking redheads, pills, fruit cakes, foo foos, and whining about how busy they are, I do pay attention less and if you snuck some numbers in between all of that fodder, I apologize for missing it. I do, however, thank you for providing the numbers again. I do remember you implying hockey finances were one of the most closely guarded secrets out there, which is why I asked my question. Again, apologies galore.

Burgee
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 9:51pm

Wrong answer

Burgee
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 9:53pm

How much money has the government printed? Need another blog to discuss economics. I like chineese food, may as well learn the language since they own us.

MR SNUFFLUPUGUS
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 10:02pm

Kzoo is going to have a hard time getting an OHL team unless Saginaw moves there. The OHL board of governors is not big on USA franchises to begin with and are not likely to approve expansion to a USA market when fans in North Bay are without a team.

MR SNUFFLUPUGUS
Wed, 03/31/2010 - 10:09pm

Speaking of Bays.... little birdie tells me Thunder Bay may be looking to get back into pro hockey at some level.
Pros...Town with population of around 125,000.
Rich hockey tradition
GREAT AAA programs. The Kings are a powerhouse organization. All of the Staals came through there along with Patrick Sharp, Ryan Johnson and a handful of other current players. There is interest in hockey in Thunder Bay.
Decent economic base
The Canadian dollar is at par with the US$ so teams coming and going would not get hammered with the exchange rate.
Con....
It is so dang far up there
The costs of travel to and from with no teams close to them may make it impossible.

Wendy
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 12:29am

Actually, there are no specific numbers that define what is or isn't a depression. In fact, prior to the "The Great Depression", all economic downturns were called "depressions".

mightbite
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 2:35am

Burgee= please don't get my Henley jerseys mixed up with Duhart.I have never owned or wore a Duhart jersey. But I do have a Duhart card when he played in Madison./ Is tonight $2.50 BEER night??????????

dschebig
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 3:33am

Keep posting, all of you. I can't keep up with all of this. I know what I know and that is not near enough to make any kind of a comment for or against anybody. I guess I am just one of Blake's lap dogs. I will tell you this he feeds us well.

Frozen Water
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 5:47am

We can tell from the GOW videos, Dshebig! LOL! I'm totally just kidding!

Burgee: Looking at something as simple as how much money is being printed today compared to back then is a joke if you are trying to argue about today being related to the Great Depression. Firstly, I'd bet money you haven't taken the time to do the research for how much has been printed during the recent downturn, let alone spent the hours at any type of scholarly library doing the legwork to find the numbers. Secondly, you're comparing apples to oranges. Once you do find the prior-mentioned numbers, start doing some math and figure out the conversions for inflation and factor those in with the difference in population of the United States from the late 1920s up through 1941, and compare them to the population that will be produced through the Census when it comes out. We aren't just talking a little Google project here, either. I love the "research" people think they do just because they have Internet access.

In other news, hopefully the team does well tonight. I'll wave to those of you forced to sell rotten apples for a nickel along Coliseum when I'm pulling into the parking lot tonight. If any of you can afford to, please donate to the hundreds of people who are living in cardboard and scrapmetal Obamavilles over in Franke Park. Rugged individualism is the course.

JungleMonkey
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 6:48am

If this turns into a a political/socio-economical blog for ranting, I'm done.

The world, economy, your family, and even minor leauge hockey is what you make of it. If you want to sit back and complain about taxes, insurance, PC Drouin's lack of effort, or even redheads making cookies.... fine.. Negativity is more addictive than drugs. Bob Chase is the only thing I listen to on WOWO now... and I'm a much happier person. I don't let a bunch of knuckleheads with microphones screw up my day, and I prefer the people that are followers of the knuckleheads don't screw up our HOCKEY blog.. Lets drop the political crap already....

If the Franke's intend to stay at the helm of the Komets, I think we'll have ECHL hockey.. The CHL is unionized now, so I don't see the real attraction there. As much as I want the AHL, if I owned the team and it were my money and control... I wouldn't do it. As a fan, yes I want the AHL, but I also see the other side of it. It wouldn't make me very popular with fans, but the more money you have.... the more friends you have. =)

Frozen Water
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 7:55am

JR: I wasn't going political, but historical. I'm a history nut, can't help it. The only reason I threw in the President's name was to show how the situations are nothing alike. Agreed though, no politics and I digress.

I agree about the AHL, also. I would love to see that level of hockey here and would be willing to pay more for it if we are given actual reasons showing why we'd have to pay more (aside from just saying "well, you pay too much now for what you're getting, so why not continue at the next level?)

I do not know a ton about the ECHL, but the idea of being in a league with more than the 4 or 5 teams (at most) that it sounds like we may have next year at this point is an attractive one. Most say the hockey is at least comparable. It will be interesting whatever happens.

Chad Ryan
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 8:21am

I will say that I really don't care what league the Komets play in next year. I will shoot the game I am sent to shoot, and when I can I'll go watch the game I can go watch.

But for all the people who bash the possibility of the K's playing in the AHL because they can't possibly make money, I will remind you that there are 29 teams in that league. While not all of them are making money, I'll sure bet a good portion of them are. Otherwise they'd be in the same boat as the I - droppin' like flies.

Sure we could talk about about Rockford losing $1m a year, but were they ever on the same level financially as the Komets when they were both in the same league? I'm asking because I really don't know.

My point is it CAN be done. Whether making money there WOULDS be done is a different story. It will take effort, it will take change and it will take folks getting used to not winning 50+ games and being in the title hunt every single year. Personally, I think that is what folks are most afraid of because whether you agree or not this town likes a winner, season ticket holders and die-hards not withstanding. Look at attendance in the MC the last two years for a weeknight Turner Cup Finals series game. Maybe 5,500, and in the clinching game both times - sold out.

If Fort Wayne is one of the best minor league hockey towns around then its team playing in the best (competition-wise) league possible could, and probably should, be done.

Chad Ryan
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 8:23am

Sorry about the typos, folks.

Alan
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 8:58am

Wow, you miss a day and you miss a lot!!

Hit Somebody is right when he says the league is "shaky". No Chicago(?), no Flint, Quad City's options all make it hard to understand how the IHL will survive. He is also right when he points out that there has been more "chatter" regarding the "I" and its situation then ever before. This chatter is not coming from the fans, so to speak, but from the media, the owners, and hockey people on the "inside".

Burgee is right when he states that we need to stop and realize what we have here, in Fort Wayne, and appreciate it. I'm with you on this, Burgee.

JR is right when he states that the Franke's have left their options open. Good business people develop a plan and try to do everything possible to make that plan successful. Maybe we have come to the end of the line and now we must weigh other options and see where that takes us.

Blake is right when he offers the costs of a typical AHL franchise. Some costs are very transparent. AHL affilliation costs are known plus the extra player costs you are totally responsible for. It is also easy to calculate the IHL salary costs. Take the salary cap and multiply that by the number of weeks in the season. He has also been telling us, (warning us) for sometime that "changes" were coming.

Frozen Water is right when he states that one of the ways we learn is by reading and evaluating opinions, information, and facts offered by others on this blog. It is Blake's blog and he can do whatever he wants, of course, but it is named "Tailing the Komets", inferring that it is more of a Komet Hockey blog than anything else.

Well, I've told you what is right. Now, what is left? In my opinion, I don't see the AHL as a possibility right now. I'm pretty certain that the Franke's, themselves, don't have all the answers as yet. I think they are waiting on some things to clear up, but in the meantime, have positioned themselves to be able to move in two or three directions. Isn't that all we can ask them to do?

Blake Sebring
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 9:00am

This was from Feb. 10, and unfortunately, we don't know anything new on the situation -- yet.

What's ahead for Komets and IHL?
Team, league will have to look at other options after Muskegon leaves.
Author: Blake Sebring, bsebring@news-sentinel.com

Muskegon is leaving the International Hockey League at the end of the upcoming Turner Cup playoffs - so what happens next for the Fort Wayne Komets?

First, this isn't an IHL problem. It's a problem throughout minor league hockey because it's the economy, period. Because of that, there aren't many options that make business sense.

Since its revival three years ago, the IHL has been unstable, turning over four of the original six owners, changing commissioners, dropping Kalamazoo, and adding Dayton and Quad City. Attendance numbers have not picked up as the original owners hoped, and there's been as much action in the offices as on the ice.

This summer, Muskegon will move to the United States Hockey League, and there's talk Chicago and maybe Evansville will start new teams.

Minor league hockey has always been unstable - even in Fort Wayne - and it's been no different from any other form of business over the last three years. Somehow the Franke brothers in Fort Wayne and the Kinney family in Port Huron have managed to keep their teams and the league alive, probably continuing another minor league hockey tradition of helping finance other teams.

The majority of Komets fans could probably care less which league the team plays in as long as it plays and there is an entertainment option for their families.

Does it really matter to most Fort Wayne residents which big-league teams the TinCaps or the Mad Ants are affiliated with? Besides a few favorites, most casual fans couldn't tell you the players' names or whom they are competing against each night. They just hope everyone has a good time and the home team wins.

Teams market the experience more than they do the players because that's smart. Those fans care only that hockey remains in Fort Wayne, and it will.

There is also a large number of fans who care deeply where and whom the Komets are playing. They are die-hard fans who see the team as part of the city's and their self-worth.

Many remember the 1990s, when the Komets were often better than teams from cities such as San Diego, Houston, Las Vegas, Detroit, Chicago, Atlanta and Orlando in the old IHL. Those fans often have forgotten or don't care that the owners lost millions in the late 1990s trying to compete, forcing them to pull the team back to Class AA-level hockey, where the Komets are now.

Those fans can also find one or two Class AAA teams that have the same ticket-pricing structure as the Komets.
There are only a few things that can happen with the Komets moving forward. The problem is not so much with them as it is finding stable ownership with teams to play. As former Komets owner Ken Ullyot always preached, you are only as strong as your weakest partner, and a lot of IHL teams are struggling quite a bit.

Here are some things that could happen:

* The IHL could add some expansion teams and just try to keep going.

Pro: This might make the most sense as far as expenses. It maintains most of the current rivalries, the Midwest footprint and keeps travel costs down. It also allows the Komets to remain in a non-union league, keeping those costs lower. Fort Wayne will always be one of the better teams in the league.

Con: Can such a league ever have any stability? Looking at all the attendance figures, there simply aren't enough Midwest cities with owners who can support minor league hockey. Will the off-ice situation always be as consuming as the on-ice product?

* The Komets could join the ECHL.

Pro: They could renew rivalries with Toledo and Cincinnati and possibly even Kalamazoo, though there are rumors the Wings may look toward junior hockey. The ECHL is also a more-established league - especially with agents because of the stronger NHL ties - and attracts better, younger players.

Con: The ECHL may lose six to eight teams this summer from its roster of 20. If that happens, travel costs would increase, plus there would be an expansion fee to consider. There would also be fewer veteran players, a lower salary cap and union dues. Speed increases, but it's debatable there's much difference in skill level.

* They could jump to the American Hockey League.

Pro: This is one step below the NHL, with the second-best players in the world. Having the chance to watch players develop with that kind of skill level would be something to see every night, even if they play on opposing teams. It's fun to say you saw a future NHL star back when.

Con: If the Komets moved to a more expensive league, ticket prices would have to increase, the local ownership would lose most personnel decisions, and winning isn't always primary with an NHL affiliate. The team's best players could get called up at any time, including the playoffs. Would Fort Wayne support a team that might not win? It has not in the past. There would likely be new Komets owners, as making money would be more of a struggle.

* They could join a new Midwest league of all the surviving teams this summer.

Pro: This might make the most business sense, as it keeps travel costs down, causes some excitement by renewing some key rivalries and loses the IHL baggage. The Komets could be a part of the league instead of the main proponent. It also makes the most business sense.

Con: The owners of the teams involved would have to be incredibly brave to leave their current situations to start something new. They might alienate the rest of the hockey power structure, especially if teams from the AHL and ECHL decide to try joining. This would be another Class AA league, maybe not much different from the IHL.

There is no perfect answer because the problem isn't in Fort Wayne, but even the Komets need opponents. About 15 years ago, there were more than 100 minor league teams, and there could be fewer than 70 next season.

The best solution would be for the NHL to start over with a new minor league system, but that's unlikely.

Andrea
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 9:09am

Wow, what a thread! From reading what everyone has stated, there is definitely passionate Komet fans blogging. There is no doubt about that.

I'm going to take the depression (are we in one or aren't we)/I should be happy we have hockey out of my post and just say what I think needs to be said; here goes:

Will there be hockey in Fort Wayne? Yes. Will it be in the IHL? The way it is looking, no. Why? Because how can any team be successful in a league that has, since it's reformation, struggled. Will the Komets be in the AHL? Doubtful. Putting the increase of costs aside, I do not see the Frankes giving up control of their roster. I feel that is huge for them; choosing who is here and who isn't. Will the Komets go to the ECHL? They should if the IHL folds. If they do, they can form a regional division in the ECHL (this has been mentioned on this thread and in threads before) which will make travel better.

Teams need to play in a strong league. Will teams struggle in every league? Absoltuely. We see this every season, however, when the league struggles it becomes a much bigger issue. The ECHL seems to be doing much better than the IHL. There are teams located in the ECHL at this moment, and by adding the majority of teams in the current IHL, it would form a great division, and also great rivalries which are desparately needed. I'm sure that no one wants to see the IHL fold, but it might be needed to secure the possibility of hockey in other cities.

I agree with some above, what is happening is happening now. Whether we like it or not, that is the situation we are in. I hope the Franke's make the best of the situation, and do what is needed to make sure quaility hockey exists in Fort Wayne.

Have a great day, and Go KOMETS!

Alan
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 10:04am

Gosh Blake, that was one heck of a post!! Who taught you to write "books" like that? I'm just kidding. Actually it was insightful, complete, and well written. It was well worth the time it took to read. ( I'm not one to throw compliments around without meaning it.)

Blake Sebring
Thu, 04/01/2010 - 10:46am

I had fantastic teachers. :) It was actually in the paper Feb. 10. I also posted it on here.

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