I agree also, chuckitt; but labeling others who want to discuss the realities of whats going on in minor league hockey as well as in our own backyard as negative or bashers is wrong... Can everyone control thenselves in every post regarding something they are passionate about? No, as far as I know, everyone who posts here is a diehard, passionate human hockey fan, otherwise they wouldnt be reading or posting on a hockey blog (and for some nutjobs like me, several hockey blogs/message boards...). Bashing some for bashing others is hypocritical, isnt it???
JR
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 9:50pm
LOL, Blake!!!!!!
But seriously....shhhhhhhhh...you'll give away Hit's preferences for servers.......lol
Hit Somebody!!!
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 10:39pm
What.....I said Ronald MacDonald......gheesh.
intheknow
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 10:44pm
Minor league hockey is in an ever evolving state. With the economy the way it is and the lack of a set-in-stone minor league system (and little NHL presence except for the AHL), failure is a constant. Even larger cities that for years hosted prominent teams in all level of leagues no longer have them. I think the whole idea of a regionalized league is the key, but who would have known a few years ago that even hockey mad Michigan would be in such poor shape that even the Red Wings can't sell out?
Ten years ago there were 106 minor league teams, now there are 78. 28 cities have vanished from the landscape and more are destined to go silent after this year (if they can even make it through the season). Be thankful you have a place you can go and yell and scream and take your family and have a good time for a few hours before we head back to our everyday lives. Komet Hockey brings people together and gives them a voice and it hasn't been that way for the history of the franchise, but only for the last dozen years or so.
The internet gives people a chance to voice how much better they would do things if they had the chance, but not many people ever do (because right now none of us have the money). How many people do you think started a business because they voiced that they could do it better than someone else and then failed? Probably more than that succeeded. Minor league hockey isn't a given! It's a tightrope where 100's of thousands of dollars can be gone through in a few months time if the owner doesn't know what they are doing or if the market fails. Who out there is willing to sink that kind of money into a business with that rate of failure? Forget about the politics and the Fantasy League mentality everyone seems to be getting into. Leave the politics to the idiots in Washington. Just be grateful that the Komets will succeed in whatever league they play in as long as you remember that you are the fan, your voices are heard and acted upon as much as possible without interfering with the flow of the business model, and that you have seen and been a part of the most successful time on-ice in Komet Hockey history. Enjoy and Let's Go Komets!
Wendy
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 10:55pm
"...as far as I know, everyone who posts here is a diehard, passionate human hockey fan..."
Actually, I'm a demigod. I'm just here for the amusement. Kind of like Q.
Blake Sebring
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 11:05pm
Wendy wins! Line of the night -- even better than Bridget the Midget.
Hit Somebody!!!
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 11:07pm
So can we just fold the FuryJacks now so we can win another championship.....because if they are gone, PH is in first, and we all know they will fold up their tents and choke again and we will take another 2 cups. That would be the Championtrip that was dreamed off. right?
Hit Somebody!!!
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 11:11pm
InTheKnow = a Franke
Hit Somebody!!!
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 11:16pm
And I think some of us were just told politely to shut-up?
intheknow
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 11:18pm
Nah Hit, just a passionate Komet fan who's known the loss of the original Komets when Welker moved them back in the late 80's. I was one of the few at games when our attendance would rival Flint of today.
Blake Sebring
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 11:18pm
No, it's not Hit.
JR
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 11:43pm
Sproat, Bailey, Paul the zambonie guy???
Hit Somebody!!!
Tue, 02/09/2010 - 11:45pm
And if they brought out another new jersey this season, once again, sucker Hit Somebody would be the first to buy and wear it.......not bad for a just a dumb old fan with a "fantasy league mentality" that supports the team no matter what with his dollars, his promotion of the team to friends, family, co-workers, fellow FW citizens....
And thank God for Al Gore, the man who invented the internet gave me a voice and gave Blake a place to write about Komet Hockey, other than the paper, to help promote the FW Komets. So the internet is not such a bad thing. Blake gives more valuable PR to this team than money can buy. He keeps us dumb fans talking, caring, and engaged in all things Komets. I bet that is a good thing for business.
Don't mis-interpret what 95% of what your fan base wants. We bought into the successes of the last 2+ years.....but we also knew that this was a league that was young and growing and we all are supporting it in the hopes it becomes more than just a league for the Komets to have teams to play against. At some point, people will care when they see the better hockey markets leave this league and they are replaced with markets that are far less able to compete without severe financial support from other owners.
In the long run, we are just the fans. We are looked at as suckers I am sure. Ok, I get it. Another fan, another buck. It is a business, you are the owners, you are going to do what is best for business.....we fans for the most part don't have the funds or means to start our own team or league, you are right.....so we have to trust in what you choose to do. I think we fans have proved over the last 10 years we do trust in what you do and have supported it, bigtime.
Don't take discussion about the health of this IHL and Minor Hockey in general as an insult to you owners personally, because it isn't. We just can't understand how adding more bleeding franchises to an all ready bleeding league is good for the bottom-line. But, we will trust you as we always do because we buy into the Komet tradition and the product continues to be good and it interests most of us. We fans do choose to put our hard-earned money into your product, and personally, I am glad to support the team and take my family to the games religiously. Questions about the IHL currently are justified, as once again a well-established hockey team has made the choice to leave the league. That is concerning to everyone associated with the IHL. Not just the owners.
Best of luck....Go komets!!!
MR SNUFFLUPUGUS
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:03am
Within 5 years none of these leagues will look as they do now. The IHL will go back to being a midwest league, the AHL a northeastern league, the ECHL a southern and eastern league and the west will have their own. This is how it was for years before these leagues all got too big and spread out for their own good. Maybe the names of the leagues will all be different too. Minor league hockey isn't going away but just like the auto companies, it needs to cast out the dead weight and work on quality over quantity. Get down to about 60 teams across all of north America, divide them up into 4-5 regional leagues and have at it. It isn't rocket science at all but it isn't as easy as it sounds with the players union not wanting to lose jobs, with non union leagues having to merge with union leagues etc.
MR SNUFFLUPUGUS
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:07am
An interesting exercise would be to make a list of every city who has a minor league team in A AA and AAA and put a star next to which cities will and should and are capable of still having a team 5 years from now.
I wonder if some atlantic Canada towns like St John, St Johns, Moncton, Halifax etc would be interested in dropping their junior teams in favor of another shot at a minor league team. Many of those cities supported their teams well for years but the weak Canadian dollar of the 1990's doomed them.
Steve
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 12:44am
I'm one of those that goes back far enough (I don't want to admit how far but I did attend Komet games before Chaser) to remember low attendance. There were almost always exceptions such as New Years Eve and Thanksgiving, but I can also remember Welker practically giving away season tickets to get people into the building.
Blake is absolutely correct, have a couple of bad seasons and we'll be down in the Muskegon attendance bracket. AHL? It's easy to have bad seasons there because the parent club dictates not only who is on the team but who gets ice time. Big game coming up? They don't care, they want Gordie to get ice time so he can improve, not Guy so the team will win. Ask Robbie Laird or Bruce Boudreau about how that works. The majority of the fans sitting in those seats now won't put up with that kind of thing, especially at higher ticket prices.
I love hockey, I really do. I'm a die hard Komets fan but also a hockey fanatic. I spent three years with USHL hockey, I'm not sure I could do it again. I was much younger then. Now that I'm retired I need to keep an eye on expenses and season tickets to watch high school aged kids play to try to get into college just doesn't do it for me. Major Junior would be a no brainer, I'd do it in a heat beat. The USHL is not on a par at all with MJ.
On travel expenses, I posted this in an earlier thread but I think it was at the end so I'll say it again. I remember in the K's last or next to last year in the old IHL a road game to Colorado cost the team about $60,000.00. That was one weekend. There were some difficulties and alternate flights involved but the same thing could happen today, at a greater expense.
On unionized teams, keep in mind the unions are involved with a lot more then salary issues and it all has to be negotiated. Bets are being taken now on if there will be an NFL season next year because of contractual issues that are coming up.
gregsand77
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 1:46pm
Regardless of what league the Komets end up in (if the IHL goes under that is), travel and player expenses are going up. CBJ71 (the resident expert of all things hockey) wants to argue about the old UHL days and the current IHL, but the fact is, we aren't comparing the two. We are looking at the current IHL and the costs of the CURRENT leagues, not former leagues. All of the others are unionized, and have teams outside of a day trip for the Komets. That's more bus rental, more hotels, more per diem, more EVERYTHING. I've asked current Koemts that have played in both the ECHL and CHL how it compares to the IHL, and none say it's better, but they always say it's different. Who better to compare the leagues than the players that have been in them, not the "so called-self procalimed experts" here on this and other blogs......
CBJ71
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 5:53pm
I could care less what the players think which is better. I'm coming from a fan standpoint. The IHL sucks (in my opinion), and I'm done giving the Frankes my money. It's not just only having a few teams. It's everything. The staged fights and the horrible way the games are officiated. I will take my money elswhere. I never claimed to be an expert, I'm just not stupid and I can see that the IHL is NEVER gonna make it, and the games are boring. maybe you dissagree, but I know tons of people that do agree. That doesn't make me an expert, but it does make me a realist. And reality is, the IHL is on the verge of destruction, and I'm moving on.
Blueline Baby
Wed, 02/10/2010 - 7:55pm
LOL....good guesses about my "career", Hit....both wrong, but you are once again the funniest guy on here!! I need for Jungle Monkey to own a team, so I can make a career change, though...of course, he'd have to hire me, though. I have no hockey experience, besides hockey mom. I have broken up fights in the locker room, and I am my son's equipment manager, so I suppose that's something....whaddya say, JM?? LOL...
Tim Hoke
Thu, 02/11/2010 - 4:18pm
Ok see ya CB. Since Al Gore invented the internet he is the one responsible for global warming from all the heat eminating from the towers and the laptops. What else could cause so much snow on the east coast! Sure the I has problems but so does the ECHL. Not that long ago the ECHL had 32 teams...now at 20 with 3 to 5 more thinking about dropping out. So if all the leagues have big problems then finally they will all start to talk and say hey what can we do to fix this mess?? The Komets will be here in whatever league we are in. Most times in life in whatever you do it takes hitting rock bottom before you can rebuild using good common sense and I think thats what will happen here! All the talk about what league is best is just opinions from our own point of view. It is my opinion that the NHL right now only cares about the AHL since they had the money and their players are there. That needs to change and it will. So lets sit back and see what happens. I cant change it and I am not going to have a heart attack worrying about it. I will continue to support the Komets and the Frankes no matter what league they are in or whatever that league is called!!!
Comments
I agree also, chuckitt; but labeling others who want to discuss the realities of whats going on in minor league hockey as well as in our own backyard as negative or bashers is wrong... Can everyone control thenselves in every post regarding something they are passionate about? No, as far as I know, everyone who posts here is a diehard, passionate human hockey fan, otherwise they wouldnt be reading or posting on a hockey blog (and for some nutjobs like me, several hockey blogs/message boards...). Bashing some for bashing others is hypocritical, isnt it???
LOL, Blake!!!!!!
But seriously....shhhhhhhhh...you'll give away Hit's preferences for servers.......lol
What.....I said Ronald MacDonald......gheesh.
Minor league hockey is in an ever evolving state. With the economy the way it is and the lack of a set-in-stone minor league system (and little NHL presence except for the AHL), failure is a constant. Even larger cities that for years hosted prominent teams in all level of leagues no longer have them. I think the whole idea of a regionalized league is the key, but who would have known a few years ago that even hockey mad Michigan would be in such poor shape that even the Red Wings can't sell out?
Ten years ago there were 106 minor league teams, now there are 78. 28 cities have vanished from the landscape and more are destined to go silent after this year (if they can even make it through the season). Be thankful you have a place you can go and yell and scream and take your family and have a good time for a few hours before we head back to our everyday lives. Komet Hockey brings people together and gives them a voice and it hasn't been that way for the history of the franchise, but only for the last dozen years or so.
The internet gives people a chance to voice how much better they would do things if they had the chance, but not many people ever do (because right now none of us have the money). How many people do you think started a business because they voiced that they could do it better than someone else and then failed? Probably more than that succeeded. Minor league hockey isn't a given! It's a tightrope where 100's of thousands of dollars can be gone through in a few months time if the owner doesn't know what they are doing or if the market fails. Who out there is willing to sink that kind of money into a business with that rate of failure? Forget about the politics and the Fantasy League mentality everyone seems to be getting into. Leave the politics to the idiots in Washington. Just be grateful that the Komets will succeed in whatever league they play in as long as you remember that you are the fan, your voices are heard and acted upon as much as possible without interfering with the flow of the business model, and that you have seen and been a part of the most successful time on-ice in Komet Hockey history. Enjoy and Let's Go Komets!
"...as far as I know, everyone who posts here is a diehard, passionate human hockey fan..."
Actually, I'm a demigod. I'm just here for the amusement. Kind of like Q.
Wendy wins! Line of the night -- even better than Bridget the Midget.
So can we just fold the FuryJacks now so we can win another championship.....because if they are gone, PH is in first, and we all know they will fold up their tents and choke again and we will take another 2 cups. That would be the Championtrip that was dreamed off. right?
InTheKnow = a Franke
And I think some of us were just told politely to shut-up?
Nah Hit, just a passionate Komet fan who's known the loss of the original Komets when Welker moved them back in the late 80's. I was one of the few at games when our attendance would rival Flint of today.
No, it's not Hit.
Sproat, Bailey, Paul the zambonie guy???
And if they brought out another new jersey this season, once again, sucker Hit Somebody would be the first to buy and wear it.......not bad for a just a dumb old fan with a "fantasy league mentality" that supports the team no matter what with his dollars, his promotion of the team to friends, family, co-workers, fellow FW citizens....
And thank God for Al Gore, the man who invented the internet gave me a voice and gave Blake a place to write about Komet Hockey, other than the paper, to help promote the FW Komets. So the internet is not such a bad thing. Blake gives more valuable PR to this team than money can buy. He keeps us dumb fans talking, caring, and engaged in all things Komets. I bet that is a good thing for business.
Don't mis-interpret what 95% of what your fan base wants. We bought into the successes of the last 2+ years.....but we also knew that this was a league that was young and growing and we all are supporting it in the hopes it becomes more than just a league for the Komets to have teams to play against. At some point, people will care when they see the better hockey markets leave this league and they are replaced with markets that are far less able to compete without severe financial support from other owners.
In the long run, we are just the fans. We are looked at as suckers I am sure. Ok, I get it. Another fan, another buck. It is a business, you are the owners, you are going to do what is best for business.....we fans for the most part don't have the funds or means to start our own team or league, you are right.....so we have to trust in what you choose to do. I think we fans have proved over the last 10 years we do trust in what you do and have supported it, bigtime.
Don't take discussion about the health of this IHL and Minor Hockey in general as an insult to you owners personally, because it isn't. We just can't understand how adding more bleeding franchises to an all ready bleeding league is good for the bottom-line. But, we will trust you as we always do because we buy into the Komet tradition and the product continues to be good and it interests most of us. We fans do choose to put our hard-earned money into your product, and personally, I am glad to support the team and take my family to the games religiously. Questions about the IHL currently are justified, as once again a well-established hockey team has made the choice to leave the league. That is concerning to everyone associated with the IHL. Not just the owners.
Best of luck....Go komets!!!
Within 5 years none of these leagues will look as they do now. The IHL will go back to being a midwest league, the AHL a northeastern league, the ECHL a southern and eastern league and the west will have their own. This is how it was for years before these leagues all got too big and spread out for their own good. Maybe the names of the leagues will all be different too. Minor league hockey isn't going away but just like the auto companies, it needs to cast out the dead weight and work on quality over quantity. Get down to about 60 teams across all of north America, divide them up into 4-5 regional leagues and have at it. It isn't rocket science at all but it isn't as easy as it sounds with the players union not wanting to lose jobs, with non union leagues having to merge with union leagues etc.
An interesting exercise would be to make a list of every city who has a minor league team in A AA and AAA and put a star next to which cities will and should and are capable of still having a team 5 years from now.
I wonder if some atlantic Canada towns like St John, St Johns, Moncton, Halifax etc would be interested in dropping their junior teams in favor of another shot at a minor league team. Many of those cities supported their teams well for years but the weak Canadian dollar of the 1990's doomed them.
I'm one of those that goes back far enough (I don't want to admit how far but I did attend Komet games before Chaser) to remember low attendance. There were almost always exceptions such as New Years Eve and Thanksgiving, but I can also remember Welker practically giving away season tickets to get people into the building.
Blake is absolutely correct, have a couple of bad seasons and we'll be down in the Muskegon attendance bracket. AHL? It's easy to have bad seasons there because the parent club dictates not only who is on the team but who gets ice time. Big game coming up? They don't care, they want Gordie to get ice time so he can improve, not Guy so the team will win. Ask Robbie Laird or Bruce Boudreau about how that works. The majority of the fans sitting in those seats now won't put up with that kind of thing, especially at higher ticket prices.
I love hockey, I really do. I'm a die hard Komets fan but also a hockey fanatic. I spent three years with USHL hockey, I'm not sure I could do it again. I was much younger then. Now that I'm retired I need to keep an eye on expenses and season tickets to watch high school aged kids play to try to get into college just doesn't do it for me. Major Junior would be a no brainer, I'd do it in a heat beat. The USHL is not on a par at all with MJ.
On travel expenses, I posted this in an earlier thread but I think it was at the end so I'll say it again. I remember in the K's last or next to last year in the old IHL a road game to Colorado cost the team about $60,000.00. That was one weekend. There were some difficulties and alternate flights involved but the same thing could happen today, at a greater expense.
On unionized teams, keep in mind the unions are involved with a lot more then salary issues and it all has to be negotiated. Bets are being taken now on if there will be an NFL season next year because of contractual issues that are coming up.
Regardless of what league the Komets end up in (if the IHL goes under that is), travel and player expenses are going up. CBJ71 (the resident expert of all things hockey) wants to argue about the old UHL days and the current IHL, but the fact is, we aren't comparing the two. We are looking at the current IHL and the costs of the CURRENT leagues, not former leagues. All of the others are unionized, and have teams outside of a day trip for the Komets. That's more bus rental, more hotels, more per diem, more EVERYTHING. I've asked current Koemts that have played in both the ECHL and CHL how it compares to the IHL, and none say it's better, but they always say it's different. Who better to compare the leagues than the players that have been in them, not the "so called-self procalimed experts" here on this and other blogs......
I could care less what the players think which is better. I'm coming from a fan standpoint. The IHL sucks (in my opinion), and I'm done giving the Frankes my money. It's not just only having a few teams. It's everything. The staged fights and the horrible way the games are officiated. I will take my money elswhere. I never claimed to be an expert, I'm just not stupid and I can see that the IHL is NEVER gonna make it, and the games are boring. maybe you dissagree, but I know tons of people that do agree. That doesn't make me an expert, but it does make me a realist. And reality is, the IHL is on the verge of destruction, and I'm moving on.
LOL....good guesses about my "career", Hit....both wrong, but you are once again the funniest guy on here!! I need for Jungle Monkey to own a team, so I can make a career change, though...of course, he'd have to hire me, though. I have no hockey experience, besides hockey mom. I have broken up fights in the locker room, and I am my son's equipment manager, so I suppose that's something....whaddya say, JM?? LOL...
Ok see ya CB. Since Al Gore invented the internet he is the one responsible for global warming from all the heat eminating from the towers and the laptops. What else could cause so much snow on the east coast! Sure the I has problems but so does the ECHL. Not that long ago the ECHL had 32 teams...now at 20 with 3 to 5 more thinking about dropping out. So if all the leagues have big problems then finally they will all start to talk and say hey what can we do to fix this mess?? The Komets will be here in whatever league we are in. Most times in life in whatever you do it takes hitting rock bottom before you can rebuild using good common sense and I think thats what will happen here! All the talk about what league is best is just opinions from our own point of view. It is my opinion that the NHL right now only cares about the AHL since they had the money and their players are there. That needs to change and it will. So lets sit back and see what happens. I cant change it and I am not going to have a heart attack worrying about it. I will continue to support the Komets and the Frankes no matter what league they are in or whatever that league is called!!!
Tim Hoke -- Right on! Good by CBJ71 :(