OK, stupid question from the newbie here... What does it mean they got cash? I understand what cash is, but cash for what? Isn't there a salary cap anyhow? The Komets already pay their players, so what does the cash get used for? Anyone??
Blake Sebring
Fri, 09/18/2009 - 11:11pm
It means they sold their negotiating rights to him to the Generals. It gets used for whatever they want to use it. There are no restrictions.
Wendy
Fri, 09/18/2009 - 11:31pm
They have cash this year?
RunningKomet
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 8:48am
Thanks for the quick reply, Blake. I wasn't sure if that was something that had to go towards salaries since that's where it came from, or how that worked. Once again you've come through.
Hit Somebody!!!
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 9:15am
I guess this one baffles me too.....it is widely talked about how the Komets have given the Generals a load of money to operate with this season so they can guarantee incoming players and staff that they will be paid this season....so the the Generals are essentially giving the Komets, the Komet's money back, for Jake Pence? Wow.
Alan
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 10:01am
I have to admit that I'm a little perplexed by trading Pence's rights for cash. First off I must remember that I trust the judgement of David Franke and Al Sims. I have been pretty consistent on this blog regarding that all along. I'm kinda stumped on why we would want cash from a franchise that desperately needs all the cash they can get. I'm equally stumped why the K's would want cash as they are one of the strongest minor league franchises in all of hockey (fiscally speaking) I have got to believe that with all the turmoil that Flint went through last year there were players they had rights to that refused to even talk to them. I would have insisted that Flint traded their negotiating rights to the K's on some player. (For example-and only using him as an example, does everyone realize that Frank Littlejohn signed with an SPHL team not long ago?) Look. maybe we just gave Pence away. I don't know and this is only my opinion. I just would always want to get something in return that might find its way on the ice sometime. I hate "cash considerations" and "future considerations" trades. This is an example of why.
chuckitt
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 10:03am
why does it matter? get the season started and the weak will fall out and new franchsises will come in. things are looking up at the moment so who cares what flint does and its the frankes money so who cares.
Enough Already
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 12:18pm
It's not a big deal, the K's werent going to sign him... the cash is an easy was to let him go to Flint, its not like we need any players or anything, plus it does help the league by letting Flint sign a decent player
Alan
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 1:33pm
Now I'm a little confused by Chuckitt and Enough Already. Chuckitt writes, "get the season started and the weak will fall out and new franchises will come in." Enough Already writes, " its not like we need any players or anything, plus it does help the league by letting Flint sign a decent player." Chuckitt, would you do me a favor and explain what you mean? Your posts have always been factual and interesting to me but I am a little confused at your meaning..... Enough Already, I have enjoyed reading your thoughts as well but I'm not sure I agree with your statement. Any time you can get the rights to some player it is the way to go. As we stand today it may not seem like we need more players but I would remind everyone of all the man games we lost last year due to injury. We've already learned that Hukalo will miss some games. I would also point out that it isn't the Komets responsibility to help the league by letting Flint "sign a decent player". One of the huge criticisms from fans of the ECHL and CHL is that the Komets run the league. If people think the Komets are helping Flint in order to help the league, that type of thinking will never go away. Guys, post back and help me understand exactly what your meaning is. I'm not trying to cause any problems as I enjoy all your insights and comments. I just want to understand. Thanks.
mightbite
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 1:49pm
Remember Chris Draper was traded for $1
Enough Already
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 2:05pm
I felt like the K's werent going to sign him so why keep him trapt here when there are other teams interested in signing him... if the Komets really wanted to try to keep him, the price would be higher, but for a team who doesnt have a complete roster yet and needs players still, they cant give us the rights to one of there players if they dont have a full team yet, plus we have more than a full roster right now, injuries happen but that wouldnt help if we cut him at camp... I didnt mean that the Komets were actually doing it for Flint, but for Jake, whose a decent player... then i think it helps the league by keeping him here, because the league would lose a player with talent if he couldnt sign in the I...
Hit Somebody!!!
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 5:26pm
I do agree on that, he wasn't going to be a Komet, maybe it was for $1. I was just finding it funny that Flint was gving "our" money back for one of "our" players. Just sounds funny, right? They have to do these things to make them look like the "i's" are dotted and "t's" crossed.....you have to follow the rules in completing transactions...I get it.
The transaction could read:
"Fort Wayne trades Jake Pence to Flint for some of their own money back in return."
or
"Fort Wayne trades Jake Pence to themselves for Flint to use this season"
Sorry.....it is true though.
JR
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 6:48pm
Do we know if the K's and Icehawks franchise's are actually funneling money to the Gens or is there something like a fund set up for certain operational areas like players payment/housing/equipment/etc... if the Gens should fall short at any time during the season or are they just acting as "guarantors" for the season???? I guess my question would be just how "involved" are the Frankes and Kinney's in the Gens franchise.?.?.?.
Hit Somebody!!!
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 7:19pm
If I had to say or guess.....VERY INVOLVED. To the point where the Generals can operate normally. Let's just hope the Frankes and Kinneys are keeping a close eye on their investments because the track record of those that are at the controls in Flint are exactly superb with that Hockey team.
I would all most bet that there is money in the bank for payrolls, living expenses, promotions, etc. in which the Generals are supposed to use this season so that the franchise can grow this season....meaning, any money they make from attracting new fans, sponsors, etc. would be icing on the cake to help that team move forward for next season. You have to believe that team is well financed this season so the only worries will be helping the fans find their way back to the games....hopefully in droves.
Burgee
Sat, 09/19/2009 - 8:21pm
I don't Hit, you're talking about a lot of money, salaries, living expenses, workers comp, lotsa cash. U think they just gave it to them?
Hit Somebody!!!
Sun, 09/20/2009 - 8:58am
Yes I do. The league could not afford to lose another franchise at this stage in the game. If the IHL can keep Flint going, and get fans back in the fold again, then maybe this thing will be like it was in the 90's and early 2000's for Flint. Plus, I think maybe the arena might come to that franchise eventually, and that would help the finances for the Generals as well.
Burgee, if it weren't the Komets and say the IceHawks owners helping prop Flint up, then where is the money coming from? How could they be signing the bigtime players they are without some guarantee that they would be paid....these players aren't stupid and all know what was going on last year. The attendance figures and losses that Flint took last year financially does not allow them sign these players without major help from outside investers. Travis Prince is not financing this thing on his own.
I am not even saying this is a bad thing. I think it is pretty good actually that a struggling franchise that needs some help is getting that help from the league and other teams. It is the kind of help that in the long run will help build this IHL to where it needs to go. This is a positive in the long run in growing this league.
Alan
Sun, 09/20/2009 - 12:13pm
Enough Already- I wasn't talking about getting the rights to one of the players they have signed to play this season: I was talking about getting in return the rights to one of the players Flint made a qualifying offer to that had assured them that he would not play for Flint this year. Each franchise makes qualifying offers to players in order to protect their IHL signing rights. That is scenario I envisioned. Fort Wayne would trade the rights to Jake Pence for the rights to a Flint player who assured them he would never sign. In the long run Flint would get Pence, Fort Wayne might be able to entice the other player to come to Fort Wayne, no money changes hands, and everyone gets something. OK, I have belabored the point too much now. It was just my thoughts on how I would have handled the situation and I'm sure everyone is sick of it by now.
BAM24
Sun, 09/20/2009 - 12:32pm
Yes I am.
tantardini
Sun, 09/20/2009 - 10:17pm
i heard flint sent the k"s a couple of used sticks and a puck bag.
chuckitt
Wed, 09/23/2009 - 8:44am
sorry to respond so late, been battling a few demons of my own! all i meant was i was getting a little tired of everyone already writing off flint and finding negative things to say about other teams. these teams will either sink or swim. the ihl is on its way to establishing a very profitable bus league and if flint cant make it them i think there will be cities lined up to come in and take their spot. i invision a two division league withing three years with the posibility of youngstown, madison, indy, cincy,peoria, sbend and who knows who else of being admitted. lets quit worrying about the weak teams and continue to build towards the positive end!! do i want flint to fold? no i sure dont but we spend too much time complaining theat they only have 5 players or that last year they didnt pay this or that. point is i dont care. things will work out and if they arent here next year as i said, someone will take their spot!!!
Comments
OK, stupid question from the newbie here... What does it mean they got cash? I understand what cash is, but cash for what? Isn't there a salary cap anyhow? The Komets already pay their players, so what does the cash get used for? Anyone??
It means they sold their negotiating rights to him to the Generals. It gets used for whatever they want to use it. There are no restrictions.
They have cash this year?
Thanks for the quick reply, Blake. I wasn't sure if that was something that had to go towards salaries since that's where it came from, or how that worked. Once again you've come through.
I guess this one baffles me too.....it is widely talked about how the Komets have given the Generals a load of money to operate with this season so they can guarantee incoming players and staff that they will be paid this season....so the the Generals are essentially giving the Komets, the Komet's money back, for Jake Pence? Wow.
I have to admit that I'm a little perplexed by trading Pence's rights for cash. First off I must remember that I trust the judgement of David Franke and Al Sims. I have been pretty consistent on this blog regarding that all along. I'm kinda stumped on why we would want cash from a franchise that desperately needs all the cash they can get. I'm equally stumped why the K's would want cash as they are one of the strongest minor league franchises in all of hockey (fiscally speaking) I have got to believe that with all the turmoil that Flint went through last year there were players they had rights to that refused to even talk to them. I would have insisted that Flint traded their negotiating rights to the K's on some player. (For example-and only using him as an example, does everyone realize that Frank Littlejohn signed with an SPHL team not long ago?) Look. maybe we just gave Pence away. I don't know and this is only my opinion. I just would always want to get something in return that might find its way on the ice sometime. I hate "cash considerations" and "future considerations" trades. This is an example of why.
why does it matter? get the season started and the weak will fall out and new franchsises will come in. things are looking up at the moment so who cares what flint does and its the frankes money so who cares.
It's not a big deal, the K's werent going to sign him... the cash is an easy was to let him go to Flint, its not like we need any players or anything, plus it does help the league by letting Flint sign a decent player
Now I'm a little confused by Chuckitt and Enough Already. Chuckitt writes, "get the season started and the weak will fall out and new franchises will come in." Enough Already writes, " its not like we need any players or anything, plus it does help the league by letting Flint sign a decent player." Chuckitt, would you do me a favor and explain what you mean? Your posts have always been factual and interesting to me but I am a little confused at your meaning..... Enough Already, I have enjoyed reading your thoughts as well but I'm not sure I agree with your statement. Any time you can get the rights to some player it is the way to go. As we stand today it may not seem like we need more players but I would remind everyone of all the man games we lost last year due to injury. We've already learned that Hukalo will miss some games. I would also point out that it isn't the Komets responsibility to help the league by letting Flint "sign a decent player". One of the huge criticisms from fans of the ECHL and CHL is that the Komets run the league. If people think the Komets are helping Flint in order to help the league, that type of thinking will never go away. Guys, post back and help me understand exactly what your meaning is. I'm not trying to cause any problems as I enjoy all your insights and comments. I just want to understand. Thanks.
Remember Chris Draper was traded for $1
I felt like the K's werent going to sign him so why keep him trapt here when there are other teams interested in signing him... if the Komets really wanted to try to keep him, the price would be higher, but for a team who doesnt have a complete roster yet and needs players still, they cant give us the rights to one of there players if they dont have a full team yet, plus we have more than a full roster right now, injuries happen but that wouldnt help if we cut him at camp... I didnt mean that the Komets were actually doing it for Flint, but for Jake, whose a decent player... then i think it helps the league by keeping him here, because the league would lose a player with talent if he couldnt sign in the I...
I do agree on that, he wasn't going to be a Komet, maybe it was for $1. I was just finding it funny that Flint was gving "our" money back for one of "our" players. Just sounds funny, right? They have to do these things to make them look like the "i's" are dotted and "t's" crossed.....you have to follow the rules in completing transactions...I get it.
The transaction could read:
"Fort Wayne trades Jake Pence to Flint for some of their own money back in return."
or
"Fort Wayne trades Jake Pence to themselves for Flint to use this season"
Sorry.....it is true though.
Do we know if the K's and Icehawks franchise's are actually funneling money to the Gens or is there something like a fund set up for certain operational areas like players payment/housing/equipment/etc... if the Gens should fall short at any time during the season or are they just acting as "guarantors" for the season???? I guess my question would be just how "involved" are the Frankes and Kinney's in the Gens franchise.?.?.?.
If I had to say or guess.....VERY INVOLVED. To the point where the Generals can operate normally. Let's just hope the Frankes and Kinneys are keeping a close eye on their investments because the track record of those that are at the controls in Flint are exactly superb with that Hockey team.
I would all most bet that there is money in the bank for payrolls, living expenses, promotions, etc. in which the Generals are supposed to use this season so that the franchise can grow this season....meaning, any money they make from attracting new fans, sponsors, etc. would be icing on the cake to help that team move forward for next season. You have to believe that team is well financed this season so the only worries will be helping the fans find their way back to the games....hopefully in droves.
I don't Hit, you're talking about a lot of money, salaries, living expenses, workers comp, lotsa cash. U think they just gave it to them?
Yes I do. The league could not afford to lose another franchise at this stage in the game. If the IHL can keep Flint going, and get fans back in the fold again, then maybe this thing will be like it was in the 90's and early 2000's for Flint. Plus, I think maybe the arena might come to that franchise eventually, and that would help the finances for the Generals as well.
Burgee, if it weren't the Komets and say the IceHawks owners helping prop Flint up, then where is the money coming from? How could they be signing the bigtime players they are without some guarantee that they would be paid....these players aren't stupid and all know what was going on last year. The attendance figures and losses that Flint took last year financially does not allow them sign these players without major help from outside investers. Travis Prince is not financing this thing on his own.
I am not even saying this is a bad thing. I think it is pretty good actually that a struggling franchise that needs some help is getting that help from the league and other teams. It is the kind of help that in the long run will help build this IHL to where it needs to go. This is a positive in the long run in growing this league.
Enough Already- I wasn't talking about getting the rights to one of the players they have signed to play this season: I was talking about getting in return the rights to one of the players Flint made a qualifying offer to that had assured them that he would not play for Flint this year. Each franchise makes qualifying offers to players in order to protect their IHL signing rights. That is scenario I envisioned. Fort Wayne would trade the rights to Jake Pence for the rights to a Flint player who assured them he would never sign. In the long run Flint would get Pence, Fort Wayne might be able to entice the other player to come to Fort Wayne, no money changes hands, and everyone gets something. OK, I have belabored the point too much now. It was just my thoughts on how I would have handled the situation and I'm sure everyone is sick of it by now.
Yes I am.
i heard flint sent the k"s a couple of used sticks and a puck bag.
sorry to respond so late, been battling a few demons of my own! all i meant was i was getting a little tired of everyone already writing off flint and finding negative things to say about other teams. these teams will either sink or swim. the ihl is on its way to establishing a very profitable bus league and if flint cant make it them i think there will be cities lined up to come in and take their spot. i invision a two division league withing three years with the posibility of youngstown, madison, indy, cincy,peoria, sbend and who knows who else of being admitted. lets quit worrying about the weak teams and continue to build towards the positive end!! do i want flint to fold? no i sure dont but we spend too much time complaining theat they only have 5 players or that last year they didnt pay this or that. point is i dont care. things will work out and if they arent here next year as i said, someone will take their spot!!!