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Opening Arguments

Spanking a debate

The reaction to this California proposal is breaking along predictable lines -- liberals supportive, conservatives generally scornful:

A Democratic assemblywoman from Mountain View says she will submit a bill next week — once it is officially drafted — proposing that California become the first state in the nation to make spanking of children 3 years old and under a misdemeanor. Penalties could include child-rearing classes for offenders to one year in jail.

Just the mention of the bill has become a minor statewide perturbation, sparking denouncements from many Republican lawmakers (the State Senate minority leader, Dick Ackerman, declared, “I'm trying to pick a word other than crazy, let me see, not well thought out.”), heated debates among parents (“A bill should be passed to allow other parents to smack the parents of undisciplined children,” wrote one Internet poster) and some self-reflection on behalf of the governor, whose proclivity for calling others girly men has been replaced of late with dialoguing about his feelings.

I don't know, though. We just had a highly publicized child-abuse case in Fort Wayne that sparked a lot of outrage, including, if I may use the term, in the conservative-leaning blogosphere. So I presume we're not against "government interference" in family life. There is no excuse for child abuse, and government has a role in stopping it. Doesn't that make this a difference in degree, rather than in kind? If the legislator sought to outlaw all corporal punishment, that would be one thing. But this is about spanking those 3 or younger. Where does this fit along the spectrum from making a child sit in the corner to beating him with a coat hanger in evoking our distaste for an activist government?

On the other hand, how do you get the attention of a 2-year-old, assuming you can't watch him 24 hours a day and want to persuade him not to stick his hands in a fan or on a hot burner or someplace else that might harm him? You can't reason with him. I ask in total ignorance as a non-parent who has never had to deal with such things.

Look at the photo of the legislator in question, by the way. My first impression is that she would never have to spank a child. Just looking at her would make most 3-year-olds, not to mention many adults, run screaming in terror.

I remember getting spanked a few times in my childhood. My parents didn't make a habit of it, but they didn't forswear the practice, either. When I did get spanked, I knew I had really, really, really screwed up, and it made me examine my actions. I guess I believe mostly something I read once about parental discipline of children: It doesn't matter so much how you do it or how often. What matters is how consistent it is. The last thing you want to do is raise a child who believes that the rules don't make sense, so it doesn't matter what he does.

Posted in: Current Affairs

Comments

Kevin Knuth
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 6:32am

"Look at the photo of the legislator in question, by the way. My first impression is that she would never have to spank a child. Just looking at her would make most 3-year-olds, not to mention many adults, run screaming in terror."

Leo, I am disappointed by that remark.

Leo Morris
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 6:55am

You don't think she looks mean, or you don't think I should have said so?

alex
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 7:29am

It may be a cheap shot, but I confess I rather enjoyed it. And much as I abhor corporal punishment, governmental intrusion of this sort is far worse. Imagine having bureaucrats decide whether you're a fit parent based on some rather arbitray criteria. Whatever happened to plain old common sense?

Kevin Knuth
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 8:06am

If you want to criticise how someone looks, you lessen your argument.

It is just a form of name calling- you are better, and smarter, than that.

brian stouder
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 8:54am

Hey KK - it's a BLOG! Somewhat informal, y'know? God knows that left-leaning blogs absolutely swerve out of their way to hit whoever their perceived opponents are

tim zank
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 9:13am

As the father of three, I have to say, I really like the suggestion of allowing us to smack the crap out of OTHER peoples' obnoxious kids. Now that's a law I can live with!

tim zank
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 9:22am

By the way, from her website:

"Sally represents the 22nd District, considered the

Mike Boley
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 10:06am

The paragraph concerning the photo of the legislator really doesn't add anything. If she had looked like Miss USA, would that make the proposed legislation more appealing? If it did, what does that say about us?
I don't pretend to have the answer to this, not sure there is a good one. It would be extremely hard to make some legislation fit all circumstances. But then, something needs to be done in cases of abuse.
To determine the validity of the the proposal based on the 'looks' of the proposer is not only lame; but, is just plain wrong. It certainly doesn't get us to a better solution. I too, am disappointed by that remark.

Bob G.
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 12:11pm

Leo's right...spanking with some sort of "consistency" doesn't turn a 2 year old into a Ted Bundy (or even a Christopher Woods), but to only keep saying "no" when they're going to do what they want in order to "find their boundaries" makes no sense ay all.

When "we" were young...and "we" DID screw up (perfect back then? What are you kidding me?) it was our parents way of telling us to wise the hell up...

And it worked.

Same goes for punishment in school....the best handwriting can be found on the scarred knuckles of (former) CATHOLIC students...lol!

AS for being able to waffle someone else's bratty youngsters when THEY misbehave or bother other people...like Tim says..."Bring it On". I'm all for that. Heaven knows the parents don't give a darn.

Some of these kids NEED discipline...many require LOTS of it...OFTEN.

But then..I like that word that's missing in many kids' vocabulary today....RESPECT.

Amazing how many people will GIVE it when they GET it.

B.G.

tim zank
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 12:23pm

My interpretation was, that comment was not in any way intended to determine the validity of the proposal based on Ms. Liebers' appearance. It was merely a quip, an anectodal aside if you will.

The fact that Assemblywoman Lieber bears a strong resemblance to the former Ambassador Joseph Wilson in a dress has no bearing on her ability to put forth ridiculous and unenforceable legislation where none is necessary.

I also think it's imperative we find out who is responsible for lending their conscience to Kevin Knuth for the day.

Larry Morris
Tue, 01/23/2007 - 12:24pm

Although I would sometimes like to backhand an obnoxious kid, I don't think that was what was mentioned. "A bill should be passed to allow other parents to smack the parents of undisciplined children.

Jon Olinger
Wed, 01/24/2007 - 5:55am

If you want to criticise how someone looks, you lessen your argument.

It is just a form of name calling- you are better, and smarter, than that.

Posted by: Kevin Knuth

You think the legislator is bad

Kevin Knuth
Wed, 01/24/2007 - 6:42am

Funny Jon-

I remember the old days well too...You and your friends.....WAIT a minute...I don't think you had any friends!

And of course, we all know why!

;)

(Complete disclosure- Jon and I pretty much hung out with the same group of folks in high school- and as I recall, we always argued then too!)

;)

Bob G.
Wed, 01/24/2007 - 7:34am

OK...we can smack the PARENTS of the bad kids?
...much,much better!
(and a lot more satisfying)

;)

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