OK, Castle Doctrine fans, was this home defender an example of courage or foolhardiness?
EVANSVILLE — An East Riverside Drive resident interrupted a burglary at his home Wednesday morning and held a man in the house at gunpoint until police arrived.
Joseph Vallar, who lives at 1323 E. Riverside Drive, rushed home from work about 10 a.m. Wednesday when a neighbor alerted him that someone was inside his home.
Vallar, who served with the Army's Special Forces, quickly drove home, according to a police probable cause affidavit, took a handgun from his vehicle and went inside his house where he confronted a man near his sons' bedroom.
[. . .]
Evansville Police Department PIO Karen Kajmowicz said while the incident ended well, she hopes that people realize Vallar's actions do not constitute the best way to handle such a situation. She said there was reportedly an approximately 15-minute time span between Vallar receiving the neighbors' call and his dialing 911, while it only took three minutes for police to arrive at the scene.
"Once the victim got a phone call, he should have called 911," she said. "The police need to handle that situation."
[. . .]
Vallar "got his property back" and "very little damage (was) done," but the situation was "a recipe for just a complete disaster, and we hope that neighbors will call 911 when they see suspicious activity," Kajmowicz said.
I wasn't thinking about the danger of the burglar turning nasty and getting the gun away from the homeowner, but what would have happened if the burglar said, "Screw you" and just started to walk away. The homeowner would then have to shoot or let the guy go (speaking of bluffs being called). Laws on when deadly force can be used vary from state to state. Indiana's law is stronger that some -- here, we have the right to use deadly force if we "reasonably believe" it is necessary, and, furthermore, we have no "duty to retreat." But the "reasonable" part should be kept in mind. If a burglar is in your home or a carjacker is trying to take your car, force can be considered reasonable. Shooting a burglar on the street who is running away from your house would not be reasonable. And "Get off my grass!" is probably preferable to brining out the shotgun if someone is cutting across your lawn.
Anyway, which is the better position: Call the police in most cases and use your own weapon as a last resort? Or shoof first and call the cops in only when absolutely necessary?
Comments
Calling the cops is no guarantee of anything. If I can be there to protect my own property (and perhaps family) quickly I will do so, and have every right to do so, and if you are IN my house, I will shoot you. Sorry about your luck.
He should have called the cops on his way to his home. No need to be "Rambo Zank".
Leo:
(welcome back, btw)
If it's a Spec Force Operator returning home (armed) and doing the "detaining", I"d say he made the RIGHT call.
(considering MY neighborhood, ANYTHING would be of REASONABLE BELIEF when it comes to castle doctrine in OUR home - everyone is a potential threat)
And when SECONDS count, the police are MINUTES away!
(remember THAT)
;)
The thing that makes this case different, though, is that the homeowner wasn't in imminent danger. He chose to put himself in danger by going into the home with his gun instead of calling police. If a shooting had resulted, I could see a prosecutor trying to make a case that the deadly force wasn't reasonable in a legal sense, although an argument could be made that it was in a moral sense.
Leo, granted in todays bassackwards legal system a prosecutor could very well prosecute the homeowner while the state buys vacation tickets for the burglar, but I don't think it's any different than somebody calling you and saying your car is being stolen out in the parking lot while you are in the store shopping. I don't think there is a law (yet anyway) that says you must call the cops before you drag his sorry arse outta the car and thwart the theft.
Kevin, you say he should have called cops on the way to the house, that's your opinion, but it ain't the law. Maybe he wanted to get home and see if it was his cousin, son, or long lost uncle before calling out the cops?
My point is, we are waaaaay to reliant on the state. Everyones first reaction is to look to "the authorities" which I find abhorrent as "the authorities" can't be counted on.
As the old saying goes, "I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy".
The state provides police service. As it does fire service. You call a pumper first before you try to put out your house fire with your own garden hose. Same with law enforcement. That's why they are professionals and you and I are not.
AJ
But the availability of government services doesn't prevent me from having smoke detectors in my house or a fire extinguisher in my kitchen. It doesn't prevent you from driving your own car instead of relying on the bus. It doesn't prevent a growing number of neighborhood associations from hiring their own security guards instead of just relying on the police. Rather than going by a set "always go to the government first" formula, it seems a better idea to do whatever is best for me at the time, depending on the circumstances.
So if it's best for you at the time to take a garden hose to put out your neighbor's house fire while your neighbor is on vacation as opposed to calling the fire department, good luck explaining it to your neighbor when he or she comes back to a pile of ashes.
When it comes to public safety, moreso than any other government service, call the experts first. You'd be a fool not to. Other government services you might want to supplant don't quite carry as dire the consequences.
AJ
Interesting dilemma. I carry a gun at all times where it
My house was broken into eight years ago. I cleared the main floors and was heading into the basement when my common sense caught up with my adrenalaine and I decided to back out and call the cops. As Larry says, you never know how many there might be, or how well armed they are.
I don't see this as a legal issue though. An intruder being in my home should not prevent me from entering and even attempting to subdue them. The line is crossed only if I apply lethal force when they are not threatening me. In other words, I think I would be perfectly justified in blocking the exit, leaving it up to them to either wait for the police or to physically accost me - thus allowing me to defend myself.
There was also the time a neighbor told me someone was in my back yard looking at an open window. I opened the window a bit further and parked my truck away from the house that night. From a legal perspective, that was probably wrong because it points to conspiracy and entrapment. Of course, had I beat the heck out of someone that night for climbing in to my house, I would never have told this story for anyone to know it was anything other than happenstance.
A few years back friends of mine had their house broken into. They live in the rural part of of Allen County.
They got all of their stuff back though! Seems two guys with a truck were going from house to house and breaking in, loading up and then going to the next house.
One homeowner -licensed to carry- came home and saw the truck in his drive. He shot out their tires and waited for the police.
The bandits did get away...but the neighbors all got their stuff back.
If a friend, licensed to conceal-carry, is in my house, and the police arrive and think I'm being burglarized, there's too much chance for a shootout. It's more appropriate to make the determination that the visitor is unwanted before calling 911.
If my neighbor's house was on fire, yes, I'd take a garden hose to it. Calling 911 isn't an either-or, it's something you do in addition to taking action.
And the last time I wanted the cops was in 1989, when I called the Wells County Sheriff's Department because my wife was endangered by a rabid opossum. They told me that there would be someone around my end of the county, a week from Thursday. Seventeen miles to the hospital, I said. They said I should buy a shotgun. Well, I already had one, but it was on my folk's farm in Ohio....
I'd say Harl there nailed it in his first paragraph, except that there's no need for the friend to actually be armed before the police will shoot them.
Calling the cops is a sledgehammer. Sometimes you need a sledgehammer, and that's great. But you better make sure that sledgehammer is what you need before you go swinging it.
Holy Moly, worlds collide....Me, Harl & Michaelk42 in agreement?
Strange days indeed.....