Ask a fan at the game who their favorite players as a Komet are.....
I would bet Steve Fletcher's name comes up more times than not.
Wendy
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 1:07am
I found the fights in hockey more appealing when I was relatively new to the sport. These days, more often than not, they just seem perfunctory to me. But hockey is a sport of deep emotion -- more than any other major sport in my opinion. There is going to be pushing and shoving after nearly every play, and yes, fights from time to time. It's part of what makes hockey special.
But that "fight" between Thomas and Price in Boston last night had to be one of the silliest things I've ever seen.
mightbite
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 5:10am
I think Mirasty made the other Komets play "tougher"=Leo Thomas fighting :)
JungleMonkey
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 7:47am
I want to post under a second name too.
Who's this RainforestApe guy? Why does he say all the same things as JungleMonkey? Why do they always agree with each other? Lol... Playing with people's blog emotions is a terrible thing to do.
RunningKomet
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 7:56am
perfunctory:
Mike in Toronto
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 10:36am
Hey this is a really good topic. Everyone has their take on fighting. Should it be in the game or not? First, you must look at the history of the game. Back in the day, no helmets not a lot of equipment. But they were still carrying sticks and the skating was very good if you have ever seen old footage.
In a fast sport that promotes body contact and toughness tension always ran high. Because they were carrying what was basically a weapon, the manly thing to do was drop your stick (not much in the way of gloves in those days) if you felt aggreived and ... fight.
The difference from then to today? Everyone fought back then. You didn't have the enforcer.
That came along a relatively short time ago.
The idea was it was better to fight then brain some one with the hickory.
With high priced talent and the same amount of intensity in the game, the enforcer was born.
Protect our assets.
Should fighting be in the game? For my money yes. However, there seems to be less respect amongst the players. The "code" is not protecting them any longer and I can see the day when far more injuries (see concussions) will come out scrapping. That will be the end of it.
First it will be ok to fight but you are gone for the rest of the game. Then the punishment will get harsher until it disappears altogether.
Then watch out for the hickory. LOL.
scooter
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 11:15am
Coyote, thats how i learned about hockey rules at first. i would try and sit by the same people each game i went to and asked a lot of questions. Granted i dont know everything and still ask questions from time to time. But i now get enjoyment teaching others at the game. I sit around the same section at every game that i can get to, which is hard now w/ 2 jobs. I taught my gf a lot, and now she answers the questions sometimes. I used to be that guy w/ 2 beers yelling without a clue. Now i yell because i know whats usually going on, and when someone falls down. This will teach u a lot, just ask and someone will answer. If all else fails call super blake during the game. . he doesnt do that much anyways haha
Alan
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 11:37am
Words. The main way we communicate with one another. It's always nice when someone uses words that we understand and are comfortable with.
As you all know, my name is Alan. It is not Allen or Allan. The reason it is spelled A-L-A-N is because when I was born my parents could only think of four letter words.
Mr Snufflupugus
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 11:40am
Mike I think you'll find very few who think fighting in hockey is ever going to be eliminated totally or that it should be.
For reasons such as I outlined above I believe fighting has its place.
I think one goon coming on the ice and fighting another goon for no reason at all should be eliminated. I don't think it should take a fight to "fire up" a team. I think that line of thinking should be eliminated from hockey.
Otherwise...let each team hire a goon. Then before the game even starts as part of the pregame show let them enter a MMA cage and battle it out. That will get everyone "fired up" and then the real hockey players can play hockey. Think it is a nutty idea? What is the difference between that and "nasty" skating onto the ice, challenging "klutzy" to a fight and then going at it for no reason? Let them do it before the opening face off!
Mike in Toronto
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 1:02pm
Agree to disagree Snuff. Fighting has been in the game a long time (from the start) that's for sure. Please understand, I believe there is a place for it in the game. I even had to throw them a few times myself.
Problem is the players are not respecting one another. The "code" is not being adhered to. And not just on the fighting side. Elite players are being injured. The games fragile economy can not withstand it's star players being sidelined.
The issue is the insurance or better said assurance of the athlete's safety. That is where the "nay" fighting lobby will attack. Everyone is targeting head shots that occur during regular play.
Doesn't it stand to reason that the next move will be to go after an activity (fighting) that targets the head almost 100% of the time?
Mike in Toronto
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 1:05pm
By the way Snuff, your idea isn't a bad one. Maybe we can get Dana White to partner with the Frankes. I think you should get some free add space for that idea. LOL.
Coyote
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 2:19pm
i see that fighting is considered part of the sport although, i cant help but wonder if it is, then why give a penalty for fighting? scoring is part of hockey, a clean body check is part of hockey, a goalie save is part of hockey yet there is no penalty given for these. i risk sounding ignorant and the reason that is, is, well, because i am when it comes to this sport. my 4 yr old son is showing interest in the sport and thats why i'm interested. one last question - why do they remove their gloves when they fight? even pro boxers have gloves on. would it not serve them better to keep them on? i would imagine there would be fewer injuries from bare knuckles. This way the combatants are happy and the crowd is happy. win-win.
JungleMonkey
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 2:35pm
Some folks in the crowd would be happier if the removed the gloves and picked up wooden clubs.
You either get it or you don't, and which ever group you fall into the other group can't convince you they are right. I've given up on debating religion and fighting in hockey. Same end to both every time.
Mike in Toronto
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 2:36pm
Coyote, all the positive things you talk about, scoring, making saves, and even a clean body check are not supposed to "hurt" anyone. So most penalties are given for infractions that impede a players progress to play the game.... Score a goal or stop a player from scoring a goal. Hooking, tripping etc. are illegal tactics that stop an opposing player from either attacking or defending.
Fighting is generally an escalation of frustrations built up during the course of a game. May even be a hold over from a previous game where one player or team feels there is need for their own "justice".
Dropping the gloves is actually a pretty stupid idea. Fighters hurt their hands quite often. Landing on helmets etc. The only reason they drop them is to signify to the opposing player they are willing to fight. The stick can come out of your hands at any time. But it generally takes a conscious effort to "drop em" to start a fight.
Blake Sebring
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 2:41pm
And fights never resolve anything. I'm bored with the whole process because of that. People who have never swung in anger at anyone in their lives living varciously. Though I have deep respect for anyone who fights in hockey, I'm bored with the whole process.
GM, quite being such a flipping jerk.
GameMisconduct
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 2:47pm
I'm good at being a jerk, I practice it on the regular basis.
Have no fear, if I see that punk from Wednesday night I will bloody him to a pulp as you instructed us to do. When the police ask why I did such a thing without being provoked I will be sure to tell them about you putting the hit out on your blog, I'm sure the paper can't wait for the media attention!
Mr Snufflupugus
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 2:50pm
Actually there are three groups. (maybe more)
Group A.. The more goons and fighting the better
Group B (my group) Fight as a reaction to play on the ice, do not fight to CAUSE a reaction on the ice
Group C.. Abolish fighting alltogether
I am with Mike in that without reactionary fighting the headshots and stickwork will become almost deadly. I'll contact Mr Franke or Scott Sproat and tell them you like my idea and to get to work on putting my company name on the center of the ring! ;)
Coyote you are not ignorant. Your question about why a fight like the one here takes place in hockey is asked by many fans of the sport every day. Mike may be able to tell you there is a guy on sports radio in Toronto on the 3PM-6 PM time slot who is regarded as probably the second most vocal sports personality in Canada (next to Don Cherry) who pretty much takes the same position on the value of fighting as I do.
If the goon from team A wants to fight the goon on team B for no other reason than to fight then let's make it part of the pregame or intermission entertainment. You can still then get the crowd that likes that sort of thing into the game and if the goon wearing your jersey wins the fight it will still fire your team up if you believe that it has that kind of reaction. There is no need to stop a game so these two stoneheads can pound on each other for no reason. Now when someone takes a cheap run at Chaulk or another star... (although he can defend himself and has a throng of bloggers to help him lol) then Mr Nasty should step in as the "enforcer"...
That being said.....Whether it was Gretzky or anyone else I never believed it should be wrong to throw a legal body check on a star player. Hockey is the only sport that believes in that kind of star treatment. Do they ease up and not try and sack Peyton Manning because he is a star? If you foul Kobe does it result in Lamar Odom rushing in to defend him? In other sports you go after the stars.
There is a difference between a cheap hit and a legal body check but at all levels of hockey these days I think anytime you see a good hard check the guy giving the check out gets jumped by someone from the other team.
Don't anyone give me crap about being anti fighting or that I want to watch Disney on ice. Never said it. Didn't insinuate it. As with all other things I spell out what I am saying very clearly. Happy to debate my points. No need to take what I say and stretch it into something else.
Off to work....expecting the flames to be burning when I return.
GameMisconduct
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 2:53pm
Coyote is the blog equivalent of the fan that comes to 1 game a year but thinks the game revolves around them. Talking during the entire game about anything BUT the game, standing up during play, leaving their seat (without waiting for a whistle) every 10 mins to get a new brew, etc etc and then get mad when you ask if they could please wait until play stops to stand up.
I don't like this aspect of the game thats been around forever so they should stop doing it..Why should I respect something that's been around LONG before I even knew what hockey was.
RunningKomet
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 2:59pm
Fighting does tend to resolve a boring second period at times.
Mike in Toronto
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 3:00pm
Have you noticed the escalation in the NHL? Boston has had two wild games this week. I agree Blake in this era nothing is accomplished. There was a time though when the whole enforcer thing may have made a contribution.
If you look at the golden age of scoring the late 70s and 80s. Other than some clutching and grabbing (see poor Mario) the skill guys were able to do their thing. No one took a run at the "Stars" without retribution.
So, game after game it is goon against goon. But you don't see many 50 goal or 100 point men anymore either. So I not sure the desired effect is there for the game. Some would say goal equipment, I would counter with composite sticks. A whole new debate there.
GM has a point though, it is futile to try to win over the other side.
mightbite
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 4:30pm
" fights never resolve anything. I
Blake Sebring
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 4:37pm
As opposed to you who go to most games and are absolutely sure the blog totally revolves around yourself.
See, I never identified the guy from Wednesday night, so anybody you beat up is on you.
Blake Sebring
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 4:57pm
15 years ago fighting could resolve some things. Not today.
BlueLineBaby
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 5:12pm
Wow....this sure has taken an ugly turn....
I'm all for the fighting. I mean in hockey, of course. But we can do it here too, I suppose. I'll never be the one to say can't we all just get along? Because I can see we just can't....
In hockey, speaking as a defenseman's parent....the players protecting the goalie also get run a lot. When that happens, sometimes it's accidental (kid just could not stop in time), other, not so much (deliberately ran straight into the d-man who was protecting his goalie). When the "not so accidental" kind happens, sometimes the d-man will gently disentangle himself from the other player and sometimes he'll give him a good hard shove. Sometimes the player who ran my d-man will take offense to that gentle shove (or to being knocked on his arse on the ice). Once he gets up from the ice, the player then has a decision to make....you either skate away and look like a wuss in front of your team, and then my d-man knows he pretty much has your number and that you are not gonna run his goalie again, OR you can try to start something with my d-man because now you have been shown up. In which case....see the part where you end up on your arse on the ice again. :) (OK, so he's young still. No fighting at all (although he did take a punch defending him). But he has lots of promise. And he has put kids on their butts protecting the goaltender. Not necessarily on purpose, but not everyone takes it well, and tempers flare.)
Coyote, this is just sort of the description fo a fight from someone who is very close to the game and has had it described in detail by minute detail to her. Imagine that scenario, but with way more temper, pride, and fans. There you go. I hope that helps.
GameMisconduct
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 5:16pm
Care to explain how I think the blog revolves around me, Blakester?
GameMisconduct
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 5:24pm
And while you didn't give the guys name you said exactly where he sat and said it was a younger guy...if he's a season ticket holder (which he could be, you don't know) it would be pretty easy to find him...Pretty sure liability is still an issue given your post
Mike in Toronto
Fri, 02/11/2011 - 5:25pm
Bob McCowan, Snuff, he is the anti-Cherry. I think you and I pretty much agree. You need a sheriff to protect. And a good tilt for the right reason can be exciting. Unfortunately, the main event on some nights is not the hockey. Geez, I am looking forward to getting down there at the end of the month.
We may not all be on the same page, but we are on the same team aren't we?
I am sure people who don't like the fighting are in the minority. We can judge this at the end of the year by the amount of people wearing a Mirasty jersey.
Comments
Ask a fan at the game who their favorite players as a Komet are.....
I would bet Steve Fletcher's name comes up more times than not.
I found the fights in hockey more appealing when I was relatively new to the sport. These days, more often than not, they just seem perfunctory to me. But hockey is a sport of deep emotion -- more than any other major sport in my opinion. There is going to be pushing and shoving after nearly every play, and yes, fights from time to time. It's part of what makes hockey special.
But that "fight" between Thomas and Price in Boston last night had to be one of the silliest things I've ever seen.
I think Mirasty made the other Komets play "tougher"=Leo Thomas fighting :)
I want to post under a second name too.
Who's this RainforestApe guy? Why does he say all the same things as JungleMonkey? Why do they always agree with each other? Lol... Playing with people's blog emotions is a terrible thing to do.
perfunctory:
Hey this is a really good topic. Everyone has their take on fighting. Should it be in the game or not? First, you must look at the history of the game. Back in the day, no helmets not a lot of equipment. But they were still carrying sticks and the skating was very good if you have ever seen old footage.
In a fast sport that promotes body contact and toughness tension always ran high. Because they were carrying what was basically a weapon, the manly thing to do was drop your stick (not much in the way of gloves in those days) if you felt aggreived and ... fight.
The difference from then to today? Everyone fought back then. You didn't have the enforcer.
That came along a relatively short time ago.
The idea was it was better to fight then brain some one with the hickory.
With high priced talent and the same amount of intensity in the game, the enforcer was born.
Protect our assets.
Should fighting be in the game? For my money yes. However, there seems to be less respect amongst the players. The "code" is not protecting them any longer and I can see the day when far more injuries (see concussions) will come out scrapping. That will be the end of it.
First it will be ok to fight but you are gone for the rest of the game. Then the punishment will get harsher until it disappears altogether.
Then watch out for the hickory. LOL.
Coyote, thats how i learned about hockey rules at first. i would try and sit by the same people each game i went to and asked a lot of questions. Granted i dont know everything and still ask questions from time to time. But i now get enjoyment teaching others at the game. I sit around the same section at every game that i can get to, which is hard now w/ 2 jobs. I taught my gf a lot, and now she answers the questions sometimes. I used to be that guy w/ 2 beers yelling without a clue. Now i yell because i know whats usually going on, and when someone falls down. This will teach u a lot, just ask and someone will answer. If all else fails call super blake during the game. . he doesnt do that much anyways haha
Words. The main way we communicate with one another. It's always nice when someone uses words that we understand and are comfortable with.
As you all know, my name is Alan. It is not Allen or Allan. The reason it is spelled A-L-A-N is because when I was born my parents could only think of four letter words.
Mike I think you'll find very few who think fighting in hockey is ever going to be eliminated totally or that it should be.
For reasons such as I outlined above I believe fighting has its place.
I think one goon coming on the ice and fighting another goon for no reason at all should be eliminated. I don't think it should take a fight to "fire up" a team. I think that line of thinking should be eliminated from hockey.
Otherwise...let each team hire a goon. Then before the game even starts as part of the pregame show let them enter a MMA cage and battle it out. That will get everyone "fired up" and then the real hockey players can play hockey. Think it is a nutty idea? What is the difference between that and "nasty" skating onto the ice, challenging "klutzy" to a fight and then going at it for no reason? Let them do it before the opening face off!
Agree to disagree Snuff. Fighting has been in the game a long time (from the start) that's for sure. Please understand, I believe there is a place for it in the game. I even had to throw them a few times myself.
Problem is the players are not respecting one another. The "code" is not being adhered to. And not just on the fighting side. Elite players are being injured. The games fragile economy can not withstand it's star players being sidelined.
The issue is the insurance or better said assurance of the athlete's safety. That is where the "nay" fighting lobby will attack. Everyone is targeting head shots that occur during regular play.
Doesn't it stand to reason that the next move will be to go after an activity (fighting) that targets the head almost 100% of the time?
By the way Snuff, your idea isn't a bad one. Maybe we can get Dana White to partner with the Frankes. I think you should get some free add space for that idea. LOL.
i see that fighting is considered part of the sport although, i cant help but wonder if it is, then why give a penalty for fighting? scoring is part of hockey, a clean body check is part of hockey, a goalie save is part of hockey yet there is no penalty given for these. i risk sounding ignorant and the reason that is, is, well, because i am when it comes to this sport. my 4 yr old son is showing interest in the sport and thats why i'm interested. one last question - why do they remove their gloves when they fight? even pro boxers have gloves on. would it not serve them better to keep them on? i would imagine there would be fewer injuries from bare knuckles. This way the combatants are happy and the crowd is happy. win-win.
Some folks in the crowd would be happier if the removed the gloves and picked up wooden clubs.
You either get it or you don't, and which ever group you fall into the other group can't convince you they are right. I've given up on debating religion and fighting in hockey. Same end to both every time.
Coyote, all the positive things you talk about, scoring, making saves, and even a clean body check are not supposed to "hurt" anyone. So most penalties are given for infractions that impede a players progress to play the game.... Score a goal or stop a player from scoring a goal. Hooking, tripping etc. are illegal tactics that stop an opposing player from either attacking or defending.
Fighting is generally an escalation of frustrations built up during the course of a game. May even be a hold over from a previous game where one player or team feels there is need for their own "justice".
Dropping the gloves is actually a pretty stupid idea. Fighters hurt their hands quite often. Landing on helmets etc. The only reason they drop them is to signify to the opposing player they are willing to fight. The stick can come out of your hands at any time. But it generally takes a conscious effort to "drop em" to start a fight.
And fights never resolve anything. I'm bored with the whole process because of that. People who have never swung in anger at anyone in their lives living varciously. Though I have deep respect for anyone who fights in hockey, I'm bored with the whole process.
GM, quite being such a flipping jerk.
I'm good at being a jerk, I practice it on the regular basis.
Have no fear, if I see that punk from Wednesday night I will bloody him to a pulp as you instructed us to do. When the police ask why I did such a thing without being provoked I will be sure to tell them about you putting the hit out on your blog, I'm sure the paper can't wait for the media attention!
Actually there are three groups. (maybe more)
Group A.. The more goons and fighting the better
Group B (my group) Fight as a reaction to play on the ice, do not fight to CAUSE a reaction on the ice
Group C.. Abolish fighting alltogether
I am with Mike in that without reactionary fighting the headshots and stickwork will become almost deadly. I'll contact Mr Franke or Scott Sproat and tell them you like my idea and to get to work on putting my company name on the center of the ring! ;)
Coyote you are not ignorant. Your question about why a fight like the one here takes place in hockey is asked by many fans of the sport every day. Mike may be able to tell you there is a guy on sports radio in Toronto on the 3PM-6 PM time slot who is regarded as probably the second most vocal sports personality in Canada (next to Don Cherry) who pretty much takes the same position on the value of fighting as I do.
If the goon from team A wants to fight the goon on team B for no other reason than to fight then let's make it part of the pregame or intermission entertainment. You can still then get the crowd that likes that sort of thing into the game and if the goon wearing your jersey wins the fight it will still fire your team up if you believe that it has that kind of reaction. There is no need to stop a game so these two stoneheads can pound on each other for no reason. Now when someone takes a cheap run at Chaulk or another star... (although he can defend himself and has a throng of bloggers to help him lol) then Mr Nasty should step in as the "enforcer"...
That being said.....Whether it was Gretzky or anyone else I never believed it should be wrong to throw a legal body check on a star player. Hockey is the only sport that believes in that kind of star treatment. Do they ease up and not try and sack Peyton Manning because he is a star? If you foul Kobe does it result in Lamar Odom rushing in to defend him? In other sports you go after the stars.
There is a difference between a cheap hit and a legal body check but at all levels of hockey these days I think anytime you see a good hard check the guy giving the check out gets jumped by someone from the other team.
Don't anyone give me crap about being anti fighting or that I want to watch Disney on ice. Never said it. Didn't insinuate it. As with all other things I spell out what I am saying very clearly. Happy to debate my points. No need to take what I say and stretch it into something else.
Off to work....expecting the flames to be burning when I return.
Coyote is the blog equivalent of the fan that comes to 1 game a year but thinks the game revolves around them. Talking during the entire game about anything BUT the game, standing up during play, leaving their seat (without waiting for a whistle) every 10 mins to get a new brew, etc etc and then get mad when you ask if they could please wait until play stops to stand up.
I don't like this aspect of the game thats been around forever so they should stop doing it..Why should I respect something that's been around LONG before I even knew what hockey was.
Fighting does tend to resolve a boring second period at times.
Have you noticed the escalation in the NHL? Boston has had two wild games this week. I agree Blake in this era nothing is accomplished. There was a time though when the whole enforcer thing may have made a contribution.
If you look at the golden age of scoring the late 70s and 80s. Other than some clutching and grabbing (see poor Mario) the skill guys were able to do their thing. No one took a run at the "Stars" without retribution.
So, game after game it is goon against goon. But you don't see many 50 goal or 100 point men anymore either. So I not sure the desired effect is there for the game. Some would say goal equipment, I would counter with composite sticks. A whole new debate there.
GM has a point though, it is futile to try to win over the other side.
" fights never resolve anything. I
As opposed to you who go to most games and are absolutely sure the blog totally revolves around yourself.
See, I never identified the guy from Wednesday night, so anybody you beat up is on you.
15 years ago fighting could resolve some things. Not today.
Wow....this sure has taken an ugly turn....
I'm all for the fighting. I mean in hockey, of course. But we can do it here too, I suppose. I'll never be the one to say can't we all just get along? Because I can see we just can't....
In hockey, speaking as a defenseman's parent....the players protecting the goalie also get run a lot. When that happens, sometimes it's accidental (kid just could not stop in time), other, not so much (deliberately ran straight into the d-man who was protecting his goalie). When the "not so accidental" kind happens, sometimes the d-man will gently disentangle himself from the other player and sometimes he'll give him a good hard shove. Sometimes the player who ran my d-man will take offense to that gentle shove (or to being knocked on his arse on the ice). Once he gets up from the ice, the player then has a decision to make....you either skate away and look like a wuss in front of your team, and then my d-man knows he pretty much has your number and that you are not gonna run his goalie again, OR you can try to start something with my d-man because now you have been shown up. In which case....see the part where you end up on your arse on the ice again. :) (OK, so he's young still. No fighting at all (although he did take a punch defending him). But he has lots of promise. And he has put kids on their butts protecting the goaltender. Not necessarily on purpose, but not everyone takes it well, and tempers flare.)
Coyote, this is just sort of the description fo a fight from someone who is very close to the game and has had it described in detail by minute detail to her. Imagine that scenario, but with way more temper, pride, and fans. There you go. I hope that helps.
Care to explain how I think the blog revolves around me, Blakester?
And while you didn't give the guys name you said exactly where he sat and said it was a younger guy...if he's a season ticket holder (which he could be, you don't know) it would be pretty easy to find him...Pretty sure liability is still an issue given your post
Bob McCowan, Snuff, he is the anti-Cherry. I think you and I pretty much agree. You need a sheriff to protect. And a good tilt for the right reason can be exciting. Unfortunately, the main event on some nights is not the hockey. Geez, I am looking forward to getting down there at the end of the month.
We may not all be on the same page, but we are on the same team aren't we?
FIGHTERS #1 Mirasty
#2 Cescon
#3Molle
#4 Schrock
#5 Phillips
:)
I'm group A :)
I am sure people who don't like the fighting are in the minority. We can judge this at the end of the year by the amount of people wearing a Mirasty jersey.
Pretty much settles it there I would suspect.