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Opening Arguments

In the nick of time

Well, finally, everybody line up for your shots. You don't have to be a high-risk patient:

Indiana health officials plan to release supplies of the H1N1 vaccine to the general public in a couple of weeks.

[. . .]

As of Dec. 1, the state had received nearly 1.5 million doses of the vaccine, with more arriving every day, 6News' Jennifer Carmack reported. Supply now seems to be catching up with demand.

Oh, but wait a sec.:

The new statistics report released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on November 30th on cases of H1N1 symptoms show that the spread of the virus has definitely peaked, and seems to be on the decline.  The report is current through Week 46, November 15-21, 2009.

The crisis is over, and help has ar

Comments

tim zank
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 10:28am

As I've always said, If you want something done right, on time and under budget you call the feds.

/sarc

tim zank
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 10:31am

Let me clarify that remark...it should read "As I

littlejohn
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 12:51pm

Just a second. The government doesn't manufacture flu vaccine; private corporations do.
As I understand it, the viruses need to grow for a couple of months in raw eggs before they're ready for distribution.
I realize you guys hate government, or at least the current administration. But you can't blame this on them. What could they have done differently?

tim zank
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 2:12pm

Uh, maybe ordered it earlier?

littlejohn
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 2:51pm

Come on, Tim. H1N1 was unexpected; it wasn't the seasonal flu. The vaccine was ordered as soon as the new strain was identified.
Unfortunately, the panic to produce H1N1 vaccine halted production of seasonal flu vaccine. Mrs. littlejohn and I were among the lucky few to get vaccinated early before seasonal flu vaccine became scarce.
We're wondering if, at this point, there's any real reason to get the swine flu vaccine when it becomes available in a few weeks. Better safe than sorry, I suppose.

Michaelk42
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 5:37pm

"The crisis is over, and help has arrived! That

tim zank
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 7:41pm

Can either one of you loyal government apologists point to any program, ever, implemented by the government that actually worked/works timely, efficiently, with in budget, and actually does more good than harm?

Kevin Knuth
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 11:24pm

95% of Republicans in Congress voted AGAINST funding the H1N1 vaccine.

They are trying to kill Americans.

There is no other excuse for voting against it....period.

tim zank
Fri, 12/04/2009 - 11:55pm

Thanks Grayson!

Andrew J.
Sat, 12/05/2009 - 12:30am

Marshall Plan.
NASA
Peace Corps.
Head Start

How about those four?

littlejohn
Sat, 12/05/2009 - 12:49am

Tim, do you really want a list of government programs that have worked efficiently? One hardly knows where to start.
How about Eisenhower's Interstate Highway system? Neither the individual states nor private industry could have managed that. Ours is the only really big country where a citizen with a car can travel absolutely anywhere quickly.
How about the Manhatten Project, which gave us the atom bomb that ended the war with Japan?
People like to complain about the postal service, but I think it's pretty cool I can leave a letter with a stamp costing less than half a McDonald's coffee in my mailbox, and a few days later it will be in someone else's mailbox in Los Angeles.
How about the Kennedy/Nixon moon mission? A couple of Americans actually walked on the freaking moon, a year ahead of schedule. That still amazes me.
There are some things the government shouldn't even try to do - the idiotic war on drugs comes to mind. But some things just aren't practical for any agency below the federal level.
Do you really want to privatize the sidewalks?

Michaelk42
Sat, 12/05/2009 - 1:11pm

@Tim

"Can either one of you loyal government apologists point to any program, ever, implemented by the government that actually worked/works timely, efficiently, with in budget, and actually does more good than harm?"

Well, Littlejohn took care of listing several things. But I'm pretty sure your game here is to then take that list and pedantically pick apart how each thing doesn't meet your particular set of criteria...

...In an attempt to distract from the fact that the point *is*, manufacturing vaccines *isn't a government program*. It's a product of private enterprise and limited by technology.

Which is why Leo's statement is still lazy and stupid.

tim zank
Sat, 12/05/2009 - 6:25pm

Michaelk42, you are 100% correct about me being able to pick apart ANY government program, that's why I made that "blanket" statement. Any 6th grader can do it because it's a fact.

As for Leo's statement, he is 100% right also. The Feds/State (with a lot of help from you guys of course) long ago established itself (think CDC) as the "protector of the people" and the answer to all problems. If they claim there is a threat, declare an emergency, and prescribe treatment,then it is incumbent upon them to deliver. The fact the manufacturer can't make enough fast enough isn't their fault, the boss didn't give 'em enough lead time. It's the boss's fault....

Think of it like this, if you walk into McDonalds and order 10,000 Happy Meals and they can't deliver immediately,is it McDonalds fault, or your fault for not being smart enough to plan ahead?

That old "the buck stops here" is appropriate, no? It worked in 2004 when you guys blamed Bush for that shortage, REMEMBER??
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/What-a-difference-five-years-makes-on-flu-vaccine-shortage--66176452.html

littlejohn
Sat, 12/05/2009 - 6:50pm

"You guys"? I don't know Michael, but I don't think either of us had anything to do with whatever's got your panties in a bunch.
Tim, your hatred of government generally and liberals in particular has a sort of weird religious zeal that makes facts and evidence irrelevant.
Your responses are kneejerk and utterly predictable, as Michael correctly pointed out.
I suspect a computer program could be designed to generate responses indistinguishable from yours.
It's apparently a matter of faith with you that nothing said in defense of government or of any liberal program can be correct. I see only reflexes from you, no actual evidence of thought. Your contorted, ad hoc arguments are painful.
Serious question: Is everything ever done by Democrats bad? Is there no exception?
I am, as you can tell, a bleeding-heart liberal. But I have no difficulty admitting that the ACLU is wrong about the Second Amendment and that Bill Clinton and John Edwards are arrogant skirt-chasers. I have no responsibility for the human failings on the left, and I celebrate success, even when achieved by Republicans. Why are you so dogmatic?

Michaelk42
Sun, 12/06/2009 - 4:43am

@Tim

Pick apart anything you want, *your diversion is still not the point*.

So wait, now the CDC is some sort of conspiracy, or it's their fault if the recognize a possible health threat and the tech doesn't exist to combat it, it's somehow their fault?

Are you really this insane? Or did they tell you this on alt.black.helicopters?

"You guys?" Who exactly are "you guys?" Anyone you don't agree with at the moment? Because I'll tell you right now I didn't say *anything* about Bush and vaccines in 2004. It doesn't matter in any case; just because people stupidly blamed the government for this sort of thing then, doesn't make it any less stupid now.

You really think making a new vaccine for a new viral strain is just like ordering hamburgers - the same hamburgers that have been made the same way for decades? *Really*? Hamburgers do not require a sample of the new strain to be brought in, cultured, etc. for a new custom order. Your example is worse than simplistic. It's not just not in the same ballpark, it's not even in the same *game*.

The time the vaccines was ordered is irrelevant to the manufacturing capacity and technological limitations of the private sector. This is a *production* issue, not an ideological issue.

Of course, Leo's going to go for the cheap zinger, and he knows he's going to get people like you to cheer him on. It's lazy, it's detrimental to society, but it does get hits on his blog.

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