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News-Sentinel.com Your Town. Your Voice.
Opening Arguments

On the war path

Hillary Clinton in Indiana, dsiplaying as little understanding of the global economy as Barack Obama, or at least a similar unwillingness to talk honestly about it:

At the union hall in Gary she grew so animated in describing the plight of old-line industrial workers, in fact, that she described them in language from the oft-repeated poem, attributed to Martin Niemöller, about the victims of Nazism. “First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Socialist,” goes the version inscribed on a wall at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. “Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Jew,” it continues.

Mrs. Clinton's version went like this: “They came for the steel companies and nobody said anything,” she intoned. “They came for the auto companies and nobody said anything. They came for the office companies, people who did white-collar service jobs, and no one said anything. And they came for the professional jobs that could be outsourced and nobody said anything. So this is not just about steel,” she finished.

Those old-line industrial jobs aren't coming back, OK? All the babble about a green-collar economy won't change that. Those Democrats who have been telling us over and over again we have to get along with the rest of the world had better be careful about heading us into trade wars we can't win. They're all beginning to sound like a bunch of mercantilists.


Bob G.
Mon, 04/28/2008 - 1:10pm

I wonder how many people fully realize that we (America) started to become LESS of an INDUSTRIAL/MANUFACTURING society and MORE of an INFORMATION GATHERING society as far back as the (very early) 1970s?

Today, we're geting away from information gathering (unless you're on the wrong end of the terrorist waterboard) and more into income preservation, domestic security, and energy conservation and alternatives.

Hopefully, ALL that information we were supposed to be "gathering" these past 30+ years is going to pay off...

We can but hope.


Mon, 04/28/2008 - 2:34pm

Let's see, the auto and other industrial jobs are gone, service jobs are being outsourced, white collar jobs are being cut, who has enough income left to preserve any? Yeah, we will end up conserving energy; we'll have to decide whether to by food or pay heating bills, and forget about having enough money to fill the gas tank. What kind of jobs are going to be available to the next generation? Well, they can flip burgers--if any one can afford to eat out by then.

Mon, 04/28/2008 - 10:03pm

Scientiic advances have propelled America into the most prosperity we as a nation have ever experienced, but the small-minded among us will continue to decry the loss of high-paying factory jobs.

Today's job market has more jobs, especially high-paying jobs, than ever before and more people are employed than at any time in our history.

With a small blip in a still-roaring economy, the Democrat politicians would have us believe that the 1930's have returned ...and it is all George Bush's fault.

By golly, Hillary stopped that Energy Bill that would have put money in the pockets of Big Oil ...and she and her buds guaranteed our continued dependence on foreign oil and higher gasoline prices.

Barry really understands economics and he has ascertained that stopping the movement of jobs offshore is an absolute must ...despite the fact that America has had a net gain in outsourced jobs as a result of the world economy.

The terrible problem lies in the fact that folks like Sue believe the doom and gloom because the Dems and their willing allies in the press keep singing the same song (off key).

"The size of a lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of the nation are in the depth of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primative simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell a big one." Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

A J Bogle
Tue, 04/29/2008 - 5:33am

And what jopbs would those high paying ones be gadlfy?

IT and other white collar jobs are being outsourced faster than blue collar jobs these days.

Look at the REAL statistics, not the talking points from the globalists and "free" marketeers or journalistic hacks like Tom Friedman, you will see than the middle class wages have declined.

manufacturing creates more wealth and prosperity than any other sector. Look at the fadstest growing economies in the world - they are growing by taking OUR manufacturing technology. manufacturing is also the engine of innovation - no other industry has this power.

we as a country are conusming more than we produce and this is not sustainable.

Founding father Hamilton wiseley noted that the economic strenght and national security of a county is directly tied to the helath of its manufacturing sector.

Shipping jobs overseas is not "free" trade, it is labor artbitrage.

Leo and gadfly- its you who doesn't seem to understand the world economy - obviously never worked in manufacturing. take a look around at all the industries gone in this town, that was once an industrial power house and city of innovation. Thanks to globalization and voodoo economics you righties are destroying what made this country one of the most prospersous in the world,

As noted "leftists" Pat Buchanan says, Free trade is the serial killer of industry, and the trojan horse of transnational government. If you really think you know so much about the world economy - read Buchanan's new book "Day of Reckoning" he uses real information to debunk all the traitorous neo liberal/neo con global nonsense

A J Bogle
Tue, 04/29/2008 - 5:49am

And to say that jobs aren't coming back is pure nonsense.

With trade agreements that are fair to use the over used cliche - enforceable currency manipulation , intellectual property protection, labor and environmental stds, and tariffs imposed for flagrant violators

Also changing the tax code to eliminate the loopholes and tax breaks for offshoring, and encourage reinvestment in jobs and technology at home like we should be doing all along.

tim zank
Tue, 04/29/2008 - 7:01am

Gadfly, you are 100% correct, the constant mantra "the sky is falling" is pretty hard to avoid. Economies evolve in cycles and adaptation is particularly difficult for those who are unable or unwilling to change. Democrats and "progressives" in particular are afflicted by theses changes because, as we all know, the world DOES in fact owe them a living.

AJ, As uncaring as it may sound, if you have not the brains or ambition to better your lot in life, you deserve what you settle for.

If you wake up everyday and tell yourself, your kids, your neighbors and your co-workers that your life sucks, you'll eventually fulfill your own prophecy.

Accepting the herd mentality and blaming everyone else is easy isn't it?

Tue, 04/29/2008 - 9:04am

It's obvious that some of you have never had to fight for your job or face the possibility of the chopping block. Yeah, lots of people are working, but at what wages? My daughter has a job she loves and completed extra education to get, but she still makes about 12.00 an hour. Not really a living wage at today's prices. When are all those highpaying jos supposed to be here--and what happens till then? "If you have not the brains or ambition to better you lot in life"--well not everyone can be a rocket scientist, but that does't mean they don't have ambition or want more than the basic necessities.

tim zank
Tue, 04/29/2008 - 9:24am

Sue, I beg to differ. I've faced the chopping block and lost jobs too in my 50 years on this planet, I simply learned to adapt.

I applaud your daughters accomplishment at finding a job she loves, now she has a decision to make, does she love it enough to settle for 12 bucks an hour, or does she want to raise her standard of living? Sometimes we all have to take jobs we don't necessarily "love" to better our lifestyles and provide for our families. It's a matter of choices, we all have choices in life, and one of those is, Do I wait around until someone comes along and offers me more money or do I go out and find a way to MAKE more money.

It ain't rocket science, it's common sense.

Harl Delos
Tue, 04/29/2008 - 2:58pm

Sue, the jobs aren't coming back. Ever. International Harvester isn't going to start making Scouts again, not in Fort Wayne, not anywhere. Indiana Service Corporation isn't going to be building a new interurban system. Packard isn't going to start building pianos again.

There might be a market for Scouts, but Navistar doesn't have a dealer network to sell them. Nobody wants to ditch their cars and ride the rails. Nobody wants to get rid of their televisions and play piano in the parlor.

The problem isn't that the jobs have gone overseas as much as the jobs have simply gone pffft. When Helene Foellinger took over the News Sentinel, she built circulation from 57,000 to 65,000 in five years - but daily newspapers, especially afternoon newspapers, are dying. The NS circulation is probably 30,000 these days, and with half as many readers, there's surely half as much income from advertisers. With so many fixed costs, the budget for news staff means a lot of jobs no longer exist there.

One thing your daughter might consider doing is becoming self-employed. Big companies are imploding left and right, and while employment is dropping, the number of self-employed people is rapidly rising.

It will help if she can create something that can be marketed directly, online. Big companies produce "one size fits all" products that don't fit everybody; customers are willing to pay a premium for products that are what they really want. That's the theory of "the long tail": if you compare the sales of Amazon with the sales of a conventional bookstore, a significant fraction of Amazon's sales are from titles that regular bookstores can't carry because they don't sell well enough. No big auto manufacturer can afford to produce a car that only sells 4,000 per year - but a mom-and-pop outfit making three-wheel motorcycles can be highly profitable selling 40 a year, or even less.

Isolationism won't work. We need to import raw materials from other countries, so we have to produce something the other countries want to buy, or we have no way to pay for it. Just as we can't thrive by taking in each others' wash, we can't thrive by making cars for each other. So if your daughter can make something that people in other countries want to buy, so much the better. Someone has to.

What's the difference between a wage-slave and a cotton-picking slave? When an *owned* slave gets sick, the owner worries about his investment, and gets him medical care. When a wage slave gets sick, the employer walks away, allowing them to fend for himself. So don't look at the loss of jobs as a negative. Wage-slaves are being freed.

But the loss of work is a negative. Your daughter needs to learn how to BYOB. No, I don't mean picking up a bottle of Benedictine and Brandy. I mean "Be Your Own Boss". Because the fewer the jobs are, the cheaper people are going to be willing to work, to get them. And not all those people are going to live in India and China.

Harl Delos
Tue, 04/29/2008 - 3:35pm

Oops. I see that the News-Sentinel is doing even worse than I thought. It's dropped to 24,196.

Tue, 04/29/2008 - 9:54pm

A. J. ...

Here is a 2005 study that shows that the U.S. is a big-time winner in the outsourcing sweepstakes:


Here is a job chart that puts the "burger-flipper myth" to bed.


Just a little research is always a good thing before you advocate a position. :)

A J Bogle
Wed, 04/30/2008 - 12:16pm

One sided links to ideologic sites prove nothing gadfly. Have you ever heard of the trade deficit? And you still didn't answer my questions - do you know anything about manufacturing? and what new high paying jobs are coming to NE indiana? Open yopur eyes and look around at whats really going on

And the canard of the "old jobs not coming back" is stating the obvious the old assembly line jobs have been gone for some time. todays mfg jobs involve skills, computer knowledge and the ability to operate and maintain high tech equipment

ironically it these "hi tech"jobs that are being shipped off to china and mexico and other third world areas as a result of bad trade and economic policy, while the grunt labor jobs have remained somewhat competitive.

Do some REAL research before spouting off gadfly

A J Bogle
Wed, 04/30/2008 - 12:18pm

The only way to get anyone's attn to the seriousness of the outsorucing problem is when the CEO's mainstream media, and politicians jobs go offshore too.

A J Bogle
Wed, 04/30/2008 - 12:21pm

"Isolationism won

A J Bogle
Wed, 04/30/2008 - 12:39pm

"As uncaring as it may sound, if you have not the brains or ambition to better your lot in life, you deserve what you settle for.

If you wake up everyday and tell yourself, your kids, your neighbors and your co-workers that your life sucks, you

A J Bogle
Wed, 04/30/2008 - 2:53pm

BTW gadfly - I can fill up the page with links completely refuting your links if I were so inclined

But its not worth it, you and Mr Zank are completely unwilling to look at conflicting information

Harl Delos
Wed, 04/30/2008 - 4:17pm

Our largest exports for the last decade have been raw materials, raw timber, ores, scrap, and grains.

Baloney, A.J. You won't find anything to back up that statement because it's flat-out wrong.

About 49% of our exports have been capital goods - transistors, aircraft, motor vehicle parts, computers, telecommunications equipment, etc.

Another 26.8% of our exports have been industrial supplies, mostly organic chemicals.

15% of our exports have been consumer goods such as automobiles and medicines.

The other 9.2% of our exports have been agricultural products, and soybeans, fruit, and vegetables have been more significant exports than grains.

Where did I get these statistics? From the CIA.

Your future is going to be pretty dismal, A.J., if you continue to buy your opinions pre-formed in the large economy size box.

Wed, 04/30/2008 - 5:29pm

A.J. ...

I have spent over 40 years of my life doing manufacturing accounting ...so yeah, I probably know far more than you think I do, although I surely wish that I was as smart as you think you are.

As for my "one-sided" websites, one was a liberal academic and the other one reported on an academic study ...duh. You challenged me to show support for my beliefs ...which I have done. I have not yet seen support for your "doom and gloom, the world is out to get poor-little-me, help me government 'cause I can't help myself" philosophy.

By the way, please re-read my post. I wrote not a single word about "old jobs not coming back." I said that "doom and gloomers" decry the loss of high paying factory jobs. We are past the time when under-educated factory workers have to go on the dole. Today's young people have the computer skills to compete for high paying jobs (that my source shows are out there).

BTW, the 3,500 laid-off GM workers will take a pay cut in their next job because most companies cannot afford to lose $2 billion per year in order to pay over $60 an hour in wages and benefits. Now before I get a reply that I just proved how bad the job market is, let me point out that GM is not the only employer in the U.S economy.

tim zank
Wed, 04/30/2008 - 6:35pm

Gadfly, you realize of course you and I are "chasing a bear with a switch" when it comes to instilling common sense in the minds of the doomsday movement. I am convinced (after numerous go-a-rounds) that AJ is in fact convinced the world is coming to an end. People like AJ have not the ability to look at the big picture nor to see beyond their own obviously meager existence.

AJ, I honestly feel badly for those that are strapped or of limited means, but (hey call me old fashioned) I've been poor, I've been rich, and I've been strapped and I've been comfortable. I'm not a rocket scientist, I'm not a college graduate, I'm just an average 50 year old white guy that was never given anything by anybody. I just learned at a young age (12 with 2 paper routes) that life, income and happiness were not going to be handed to me, just like my parents I would have to work hard and EARN my way.
I don't know how old you are AJ, what you do for a living or why your life appears to have a huge dead end with no future, but I can assure you, with a little better outlook and and a sincere desire to better your lot in life you too can be a lot better off.