Now that Fort Wayne has joined the "accommodating bicycles" trend, could ugly disputes be in our future?
New York now has 482 miles of bike lanes, with plans for 1,800 miles to appear by 2030, according to the Journal — all to accommodate a daily ridership that may have doubled since 2005. But the three parties have yet to learn to live together, as Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer recently found. Over a three-day period this fall, Stringer's staff observed 1,700 infractions by cyclists, drivers, and walkers alike:
“We've got seniors who think bike lanes are walkways. We've got police cars using bike lanes as a quick way around town. We've got taxi cabs pulling up so close to the bike lanes that a passenger gets out and actually doors a cyclist,” Mr. Stringer said in a recent interview in his office.
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At least you have bike lanes. One of my pet peeves down here - bicycles on county roads where we barely have room for 2 vehicles. And, to make it worse, it seems to be an accepted thing because of who sponsors it every year. Believe it or not, Lance Armstrong (who lives in Austin) sponsors a bike ride every year whose long leg takes it all the way down FM 2325, which is the main road that goes from my "addition" into the little town of Wimberley. And, of course, since they know they're going to ride that road, they are out practicing at least 2 months before the actual ride. So, picture driving into town at 55-60 (the speed limit) and you crest a hill (after all, hills ARE all around out here - that's kinda why they call it the HILL COUNTRY) and there's a bike right in front of you going .5 miles an hour and another vehicle coming at you in the other lane doing 55. Happens all the time - bikers on county roads without bike lanes - geez, ...
I used to ride a bike everywhere. In my first summer riding a ten speed I rode over 7,000 miles on a Schwin Continental. At the end of the summer I made a huge step upward to a chrome molly frame. The next summer I was average over 75 miles a day with most riding to work, then to Jury pool to swim and back home. When my odometer had finally given out, I was over 20,000 miles. Those were decades ago and have ridden very little since being hurt in the Navy.
Bike lanes are extremely dangerous, especially when they are situated on the right side of a street where drivers tend to open a door. Even Fort Wayne puts the bike lane on the right side of one way streets. The next problem is that instead of enforcing the vehicular laws as should be done with bikes, we now give bikers a pass, a special place to ride. A car has to yield to pedestrians when making a right turn. Now a biker who could be traveling easily at 44 ft-sec could be hidden in a side mirror and run into the side of a car making a right turn even though according to the Fort Wayne Transportation dept person I spoke to says the biker has the right of way.
What caused this increase in adults riding without lights at night, riding in the wrong direction and why do most kids do this? To me it began when schools stopped allowing kids to ride a bike to school. Schools used to teach bike safety and rules, but now don
Someone in city government apparently thinks labeling a road "bike route" makes it so.
The signs recently went up on the stretch of Reed Road between Stellhorn and St. Joe Center. The road has no shoulders, is only two lanes, and is just hilly enough that drivers can't see very far ahead.
You'd be insane to ride a bike on that road.
The only car accident I've ever had recently occurred on that road. I got rear-ended by a girl who must have been distracted, as I never heard any braking or tire-screeching sounds.
Had I been on a bicycle, I'd have been killed. But there was that damn sign, right next to the wreckage: Bicycle route. What are they thinking?
Rural roads with hills should pose no problems for cars and bikes. Speed limits are set based on the ability of a vehicle to safely travel on the road. This would include tight bends, blind spots, hills and ability to see oncoming traffic. Farm equipment travels these same roads and they travel far slower than a bike. Amish buggies also travel these roads and in most part travel slower than bikes. When it comes to hills, the speed is set such that you would see slow moving vehicles as you came into sight either climbing the hill or you would see the bike/buggy/farm equipment cresting the hill. The only time you might come upon a hill and not see any other vehicle is if they had already crested the hill. In this case the speed limit is set such that you should be moving slowly enough that the distance it would take to crest the hill provides the vehicle in front enough time to be some distance on the downward slope. They only time this would not be the case is if the vehicle is stopped.
A vehicle that is stopped (not due to traffic) I believe must be a minimum of 25 feet off the road, otherwise any accident with this vehicle, is the stopped vehicles fault.
The main fault of driver/car accidents are the following:
One lady told the police while Paulding Road was being widened from 2 to 4 lanes stated
No offense, Bill, but you have no idea how the roads are and how they are traveled in rural Texas. Bikers need to stay off county roads here, period. With a speed limit of 55 or 60, even on the crests of hills where you can't see the other side, a bike in the wrong place at the wrong time will cause an accident.
Mr. Larsen, that was all very, um, educational. But the point remains, had I been in an Amish buggy I again would be dead. And the typical cyclist around here appears be going about 10 mph, tops. Maybe Lance Armstrong could safely pedal his way along Reed Road, but he'd better not stop in order to make a left turn, or a college girl sending a text message will flatten him.
So how about installing bike lanes on all these Reed Roads in Allen County so bicycling, an accepted form of transportation, can flourish and riders can survive. Guess some of you guys will scream cost!
In simple terms [everyone on the road] need[s] to obey the traffic laws.
"...or a college girl [driving in an unsafe, negligent manner] will flatten him."
"No offense, Bill, but you have no idea how the roads are and how they are traveled in rural Texas. Bikers need to stay off county roads here, period."
I'm going to assume you're inferring the roads are traveled in an unsafe manner by motor vehicles, if they're such a threat.
"With a speed limit of 55 or 60, even on the crests of hills where you can
Figured you'd say that Michaelk42 - but that's not what I said - go back up and re-read it if you can't remember, ... just like a bike rider to need reading lessons, ...
It's exactly what you said. People in motor vehicles aren't driving safely enough, so everyone else has to stay off the road.
Or we could actually start holding negligent motor vehicle drivers responsible for collisions, instead of blaming the victims.
AndrewJ sez: "So how about installing bike lanes on all these Reed Roads in Allen County so bicycling, an accepted form of transportation, can flourish and riders can survive. Guess some of you guys will scream cost!"
Great Idea! I would suggest all you riders simply pool your money and have at it.
In fact;
"One problem I
I'd suggest using gasoline tax revenue to expand bike lanes. More bicycle traffic for short-term trips as well as for leisure purposes could mean fewer cars on the road. That could eventually mean less needing to be spent on road widening/maintenance.
I know, too idealistic a thought on my part.
The people have already pulled their money together to buy right of way for transportation. Bikes were first, cars second.
The right of ways were created with a set width. This determines how many lanes you can have. Installing a bike lane reduces the number of lanes or reduces the width of lanes making it more dangerous for all.
Creating two separate "transportation" lanes (bike and cars) is just a waste of money. A car that is traveling 55 mph and crests a hill and is unable to see what is on the downward slope is traveling in an unsafe manner. If you cannot see far enough ahead (fog) then you slow down to a safe speed.
I have lived in Fort Wayne since 1963 and I have never had problems with cars that obey traffic laws. The only problems I have had with drivers are those who talk on cell phones, read while driving, put make up on while driving, drive to fast, weave in and out of traffic, pull out in front of others failing to yield the right of way.
"Maybe Lance Armstrong could safely pedal his way along Reed Road, but he
From Larsen: "A car that is traveling 55 mph and crests a hill and is unable to see what is on the downward slope is traveling in an unsafe manner." No, not really, the county roads here were designed for vehicle traffic at certain speeds - if someone stalls or their vehicle otherwise stops working over the crest of a hill, they know enough to get it off the road so it doesn't cause an accident. There are some places, bad curves or really steep hills, where "limited sight" signs are up and that (down here) means slow down because you can't tell what's ahead. But that never included bicycle riders, not on the county roads out in the middle of nowhere, they were designed for vehicle traffic and there simply isn
Actually, roads are engineered so vehicles may travel them at certain *maximum* speeds. That's why we have speed /limits/ and not speed /goals/.
"There are some places, bad curves or really steep hills, where
Good God, ... how do you guys put up with this guy ?
Larry, we try to ignore him, especially about bikes or hot beverages. He tends to be a fuzz "rabid".
I think he may be a tad unclear on the concept of what happens when 3,000 pounds of metal meets 125 pounds of belligerent biker too.
Michaelk42 made excellent points. It is clear there is a large number of people who believe bikes do not belong on roads and that if when they are in a vehicle may or may not actually pay attention to driving. Thus if you are on a bike and they are in a 3,000 pound car, then they have no fear if they hit you. This type of mentality leads to the SUV hitting the 3,000 pound car and doing as much bodily injury as if a 3,000 pound car strikes a bike. I guess the next step is to drive a M1-A tank around and take care of business as if it were the old west.
Tell you what, Larry... in addition to the above points, you need to find us that traffic engineer that will tell us those roads you speak of are built exclusively for the use of motor vehicles.
Because until you do, I'm calling bullshit on your claim.
Bullshit all you like, ...
And as I thought, bullshit is all it is.
Thank god you don't make the rules - don't think I have to find anything, ... and calling bullshit all you want doesn't make it so. I think the way to handle you is just to ignore you, so that's exactly what I will do, ...
I don't make the rules. The generally accepted idea is that if you make an assertion, you need something to back it up.
You're telling us the roads in your area are designed *exclusively* for motor vehicles. I imagine the people who actually designed those roads would be somewhat surprised to learn this.
Back up what you have to say with some actual facts, if you can.
Michael K is right:
This is what you wrote: "Bikers need to stay off county roads here, period."
Here in FLorida, and I suspect Indiana and places beyond, bicycles, mopeds and rickshaws have the same right, and have to follow the same rules of the road like cars and trucks. Other than the fact one drives faster and can cause more damage than the other, use of the roads does not discriminate. This battle was fought some time ago; surprised people are still telling bicyclists to 'Stay off country roads."
AJ
Actually, a number of places have banned bicycles -- you can't ride one on I-69 here in Indiana, for example -- and there's a lively debate going on about the issue. You can argue that bikes should be allowed everywhere, but "bicycles, mopeds and rickshaws have the same right, and have to follow the same rules of the road like cars and trucks" just isn't so.
That's a limited access, interstate highway. It's our version of an autobahn; slower moving vehicles have alternatives, like state highways, to get from one big area to another, hence why it made sense to ban them from those superhighways.
AJ
But the point is that permitting bikes on the road is not a universal. If I may take a "libertarian defending federalism" turn here, local conditions may vary, and the people who use the roads -- motorists and those in other vehicles as well-- should debate what to do about their own roads. A bike rider in Fort Wayne may not be in the best position to tell someone who has driven over rural Texas roads every day for 10 years what Texans should do with their rural roads.
Resistance if futile is the drivers creed. Where did roads come from? Who paid for the roads? Who used the roads? Before there were cars ,there were roads used by walkers, horses, buggies, wagons and the like (no cars). The right of way was paid for by the people long before cars. The modern road seems to have come about to keep dust down due to higher rates of travel, but the original right of ways were for non cars. Drivers seem to think the roads belong to them because they are faster and more dangerous. In many ways drivers are squaters who are attempting to take the rights of others who built, paid for and used the roads long before automobiles.
When a subdivision is built, do taxpayers pay to build the road or for the land on where it sits, no, the developer does. The developer must maintain the road for a set number of years to a standard before the county, city or state takes over the maintenance of it.
The interstate highway system came about as a military agenda to move man and equipment quickly across the country. During WWII it became obvious after the Battle of the Bulge that moving equipment and men across 3,000 miles was difficult. I believe it was Eisenhower who proposed the Interstate system. You may not know it, but there are designed straight sections of road spread across this country for use as landing strips for military aircraft. The thought was airfields would be destroyed, but to have large paved roads could double as runways.
Buggies,mopeds and non motorized vehicles are not permitted on interstates. This land and the construction was paid for by gasoline taxes. A question that has not been posed is, can an electric car be driven on a highway? Motors are electrically powered where as engines are fuel powered. Technically speaking gas and diesel powered cars would be prohibited from interstates because they fall under the category of "non motorized."
When I traveled home from San Diego to Fort Wayne in 1980, I found the drivers in TX drove about 20 mph over the speed limit.
I'll tell you what, I won't ride a bike on your county roads if you just stay away from my neck of the woods, ...